Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

[Zenmastur]

If that is your goal then the best strategy is to look at ICCF games in which one side wins and both sides have ELO of greater than 2500. Then rule out all games in which gross blunders occurred (it happens on occasion even in high level ICCF games) and then find the moves that stockfish disagrees with for the winning side. Many of these moves (but not all) will be the moves you will be looking for. I.e. moves in which a high depth search by stockfish gets it wrong and a CC type search (or compound search) will get it right.

Where is the ICCF archive of games? It's not easy to find on their website.

Are there good examples of such games/moves you can suggest immediately?

I could never see the archive before I became a member. I'm not sure if that's still true but the archive is found here:https://www.iccf.com/message?message=454

If you can't see it let me know and I'll see about getting some appropriate games to you.

I don't have a good example off the top of my head. This type of analysis takes a LONG time. So be prepared.

Note: this link works for me, but I'm always logged in, so it may not work for you.

Regards,

Zenmastur

FYI

"Access denied

You are not logged in. Please log in first.
If you logged in before, your session may have timed out or the server may have been reset."

So members only, it seems.

Well, I guess I can pull some recent ones and send them by email if you like. If so PM me an email address where to send them.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[zullil]

I'm going to take a break from this game to check what happened and how come I missed 11...Bd6 (even when I take a break from this game I spend time analyzing it ), and I'll come with an analysis method that hopefully doesn't miss a Harvey's move in the future.

But don't worry, I'll be back (playing moves) in about 48 hours...

It will give me time to find some more moves you are not expecting

As the last few posts have copied a position from 2 moves ago I will paste here the current position:
[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6[/pgn]
[d]r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb2n1/2p3P1/3pN1b1/P4N2/1P1BPPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 3 12

Stockfish-dev says -1.42 at depth 61. With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70. Or my GUI will crash from boredom, and I too will need to start all over.

-1.43 at depth 64.

Now at depth 70. Eval is -1.59.

[Graham Banks]

Well, I guess I can pull some recent ones and send them by email if you like. If so PM me an email address where to send them.

Regards,

Zenmastur

I'd be grateful to have the games from 2016 onwards, if that's not too much trouble.

[Ovyron]

I'm not sure why he thinks the move 11. ... Bd6 changes anything. I certainly didn't feel any tremors in the force when that move was played!

What if Bd6 was a forced win for black and I missed it?? That's the point, that I just didn't know. How can I guarantee a draw if a move like Bd6 was a mate in X and I missed it? (it could be argued that if Bd6 was a mate in X I'd not have missed it, but only if I have reached infallibility - and then I'd be able to guarantee a draw from the opening position, but I can't even do it for the French...)

Actually, if Rc1 O-O Nxc5 Bxc5 Rxc5 Qd7 is played I transpose back to analysis, along with many lines where Harvey plays Qd7. If this happens then Bd6 was just a fancy move order, and, again, I don't think it would have been good for Harvey, since the tree of these variations is much smaller than the one for Qd7 directly.

Anyway, I announce that I am back from my break from this game, and that I have opponent modeled Harvey. In the process I have seen positions where Stockfish shows -0.90 scores, that are lost for black, and extraordinary moves like Rxe2!! where black castles and then sacrifices the king's Rook for a pawn! (this just in case it happens on the board, and people are shocked by black's move, while I can claim I saw that from here )

What I have seen makes me suspect that Bd6 is some "anti-Stockfish" move, for a playing style that would beat engine slaves, so that if Harvey and Zullil (or Stockfish dev Depth 60) played a game, Zullil would see unexpected moves that would throw the variations upwards, so unassisted Stockfish would see those -0.90 scores and think it's fine, but killer moves by black aren't seen by Stockfish until after they are played, so it's conceivable that black could lead the game into positions where interaction is necessary, so Stockfish dev would be toasted just because it was unassisted.

Like this one regarding the Italian Game being busted

It remains busted with an eval of -0.04. In the same scale the opening position is 0.03, so the meaning of "busted" is that if white plays the Italian it has handed an advantage to black bigger than the opening position. And while I can predict the next moves from Stockfish dev at Depth 60, Stockfish dev at any depth can't find black's main line in the Italian (there's a wall of 0.50ish positions that won't allow it to be inside its horizon, as it thinks black should pick moves that it evaluates as better than 0.50.)

The key to the Italian is that white's queen loses its value, so of course engines that don't correct for this would misevaluate the positions. I haven't checked but I suspect a modified Stockfish that tweaks the values of both queens for the Italian would show a more accurate eval and would be able to outperform regular Stockfish from the black side. But who has time for that??

[jp]

Anyway, I announce that I am back from my break from this game

So what is your move?

[Ovyron]

12.Rc1 will be my move. I found it within 10 minutes and nothing has happened to make me change my mind, but remember I don't ponder, so if played it, I wouldn't be able to analyze further until Harvey moves. So it's clear all my analysis is not to choose a move, it's to understand my choice.

[zullil]

12.Rc1 will be my move. I found it within 10 minutes and nothing has happened to make me change my mind, but remember I don't ponder, so if played it, I wouldn't be able to analyze further until Harvey moves. So it's clear all my analysis is not to choose a move, it's to understand my choice.

Stockfish-dev is at -1.57 at depth 71.

Please let us know when you are officially making move 12.

[Ovyron]

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1

[d]r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb2n1/2p3P1/3pN1b1/P4N2/1P1BPPBP/2RQ1RK1 b kq -

[Harvey Williamson]

[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 0-0[/pgn]
I will give you your Qd7 wish:
if 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7

[zullil]

[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 0-0[/pgn]
I will give you your Qd7 wish:
if 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7

Needless to say, two more Stockfish moves ...