Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

[Harvey Williamson]

I'm surprised you use ponder. I've never found any use for it.

Regards,

Zenmastur

I was just meaning he played the move I was expecting.

[Ovyron]

Ponder hit!

[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4[/pgn]

I'm surprised you use ponder. I've never found any use for it.

Regards,

Zenmastur

In correspondence games I only have seen it used to mean "I expected your move, I had my move against it ready, and from the time I saw you played it to the time I replied to it I did no further analysis."

In principle I agree with you, I only check my games when it's my time to move, so in this game I have never done any analysis unless Harvey already played against my moves.

--------

And now, I have a confession to make (I'm the kind of guy that wouldn't have confessed if Harvey's move was expected by Stockfish dev's depth 60 ): I completely missed 11...Bd6. I only looked at 11...Qd7, 11...Qd5, 11...Be7 and 11...Rc8, and that was it. There's no transposition so I'm going to have to start my analysis from scratch.

Ironically, 2 days ago I was discussing this with Master Om:

The key to analysis is to find what is the best opponent's move, and refute that. That's the only move you need to check. You check the others to make sure it's not one of them, but if you have to analyze more than 3 alternatives to make sure opponent's best isn't missed, your method to rank the top 4 moves on a position is flawed, and fixing it would make you save a lot of time, because on a position with 20 playable moves, you only need to check 4 lines and discard the other 16. 80% of time saved.

Given that my analysis has been flawed, I can no longer guarantee a draw.

I'm going to take a break from this game to check what happened and how come I missed 11...Bd6 (even when I take a break from this game I spend time analyzing it ), and I'll come with an analysis method that hopefully doesn't miss a Harvey's move in the future.

But don't worry, I'll be back (playing moves) in about 48 hours...

[Harvey Williamson]

I'm going to take a break from this game to check what happened and how come I missed 11...Bd6 (even when I take a break from this game I spend time analyzing it ), and I'll come with an analysis method that hopefully doesn't miss a Harvey's move in the future.

But don't worry, I'll be back (playing moves) in about 48 hours...

It will give me time to find some more moves you are not expecting

As the last few posts have copied a position from 2 moves ago I will paste here the current position:
[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6[/pgn]
[d]r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb2n1/2p3P1/3pN1b1/P4N2/1P1BPPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 3 12

[Ovyron]

What I'll be doing is "opponent modeling", if I can find a way to have predicted all your played moves (I also missed 5...Ne7, but it transposed back to analysis) I'll be able to not be surprised anymore. Unless you're doing some psychotic analysis method that is impossible to be predicted by anyone

[zullil]

I'm going to take a break from this game to check what happened and how come I missed 11...Bd6 (even when I take a break from this game I spend time analyzing it ), and I'll come with an analysis method that hopefully doesn't miss a Harvey's move in the future.

But don't worry, I'll be back (playing moves) in about 48 hours...

It will give me time to find some more moves you are not expecting

As the last few posts have copied a position from 2 moves ago I will paste here the current position:
[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6[/pgn]
[d]r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb2n1/2p3P1/3pN1b1/P4N2/1P1BPPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 3 12

Stockfish-dev says -1.42 at depth 61. With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70. Or my GUI will crash from boredom, and I too will need to start all over.

[jp]

With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70. Or my GUI will crash from boredom, and I too will need to start all over.

What GUI do you use (or how do you do it without a GUI)?

[zullil]

With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70. Or my GUI will crash from boredom, and I too will need to start all over.

What GUI do you use (or how do you do it without a GUI)?

I'm using http://chessx.sourceforge.net/ .

[Ovyron]

With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70.

Let me guess: Stockfish dev will get stuck with the two first PV moves being 12.Rc1 O-O up to depth 70, right? So why don't you go and make those moves already? If you do that, then it'd reach depth 70 from that position, which is equivalent to depth 72 at the root. But wait, if you did that, then it'd show 13.Nxc5 Bxc5 as the next two first PV moves, so you could force those two, and then, if it reaches depth 70 there, it'll be equivalent to depth 74 from the root! But its next depth 70 move would be 14.Rxc5, so you could force that as well since the equivalent of depth 75 would be reached at the root, and you love high depth, right?

You might think that you are showing that Stockfish dev in good hardware is good enough to find Harvey's and my moves or better, but the truth is that those high depth PVs have been seen by Harvey since a long while and I can see them within 10 minutes, so you could know in advance depth 75's PV within a minute.

If your GUI crashes from boredom it'll be because it's not being put to good use. So much power, and yet...

[zullil]

With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70.

Let me guess: Stockfish dev will get stuck with the two first PV moves being 12.Rc1 O-O up to depth 70, right? So why don't you go and make those moves already? If you do that, then it'd reach depth 70 from that position, which is equivalent to depth 72 at the root. But wait, if you did that, then it'd show 13.Nxc5 Bxc5 as the next two first PV moves, so you could force those two, and then, if it reaches depth 70 there, it'll be equivalent to depth 74 from the root! But its next depth 70 move would be 14.Rxc5, so you could force that as well since the equivalent of depth 75 would be reached at the root, and you love high depth, right?

You might think that you are showing that Stockfish dev in good hardware is good enough to find Harvey's and my moves or better, but the truth is that those high depth PVs have been seen by Harvey since a long while and I can see them within 10 minutes, so you could know in advance depth 75's PV within a minute.

If your GUI crashes from boredom it'll be because it's not being put to good use. So much power, and yet...

Fishing for info about Stockfish's PV? Find your own moves, and I'll maintain my practice of doing nothing. My point is that so far, I've literally done nothing. No effort at all. I just type in the moves and let Stockfish do its thing. My hope is that you or Harvey will produce something better, since you're the ones who are expending effort.

[zullil]

I'm going to take a break from this game to check what happened and how come I missed 11...Bd6 (even when I take a break from this game I spend time analyzing it ), and I'll come with an analysis method that hopefully doesn't miss a Harvey's move in the future.

But don't worry, I'll be back (playing moves) in about 48 hours...

It will give me time to find some more moves you are not expecting

As the last few posts have copied a position from 2 moves ago I will paste here the current position:
[pgn]1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6[/pgn]
[d]r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb2n1/2p3P1/3pN1b1/P4N2/1P1BPPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 3 12

Stockfish-dev says -1.42 at depth 61. With 48 hours to search, the next evaluation might come from a depth above 70. Or my GUI will crash from boredom, and I too will need to start all over.

-1.43 at depth 64.