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Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
by mwyoung
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 am
by Laskos
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI
Omg, I think people told you dozens of times --- why ponder = on? 32 threaded SF on 16 core machine ponder on? Ponder = on is completely wrecking your games. You would better use 1kW electric power on a fridge for ice creams.

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:13 am
by mwyoung
Laskos wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI
Omg, I think people told you dozens of times --- why ponder = on? 32 threaded SF on 16 core machine ponder on? Ponder = on is completely wrecking your games. You would better use 1kW electric power on a fridge for ice creams.
OMG get over it. I can run a fridge and a computer.

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:56 am
by pohl4711
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:13 am
Laskos wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI
Omg, I think people told you dozens of times --- why ponder = on? 32 threaded SF on 16 core machine ponder on? Ponder = on is completely wrecking your games. You would better use 1kW electric power on a fridge for ice creams.
OMG get over it. I can run a fridge and a computer.
On a 16core CPU there are only 32 Threads (if Hyperthreading is activated). So, if ponder is on and Leela is running on 2 Threads, Stockfish may not use more than 30 Threads, of course. Otherwise the results will be distorted, because the number of used threads is 32+2=34.
And it is better, to keep 1 free Thread for Windows.
So, if you want to play with pondering: SF=29 Threads, Leela=2 Threads and 1 free Thread for the OS. And everything is fine.
But SF=32 Threads, Leela=2 Threads with ponder on on a 16core CPU is nonsense.

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:21 pm
by Laskos
pohl4711 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:56 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:13 am
Laskos wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI
Omg, I think people told you dozens of times --- why ponder = on? 32 threaded SF on 16 core machine ponder on? Ponder = on is completely wrecking your games. You would better use 1kW electric power on a fridge for ice creams.
OMG get over it. I can run a fridge and a computer.
On a 16core CPU there are only 32 Threads (if Hyperthreading is activated). So, if ponder is on and Leela is running on 2 Threads, Stockfish may not use more than 30 Threads, of course. Otherwise the results will be distorted, because the number of used threads is 32+2=34.
And it is better, to keep 1 free Thread for Windows.
So, if you want to play with pondering: SF=29 Threads, Leela=2 Threads and 1 free Thread for the OS. And everything is fine.
But SF=32 Threads, Leela=2 Threads with ponder on on a 16core CPU is nonsense.
Even worse than that. Leela with 2080ti needs 2 threads running on 2 full cores, not 2 hyperthreads running in parallel with 2 other (SF) hyperthreads using the same 2 cores. So, with ponder=on, even SF on 16 threads on 16 cores will slow down Leela. With ponder=on on 16 core machine, SF can use only 14 threads on 14 cores, or 28 threads on 14 cores with the affinities set to those 14 cores. This guy is several clicks away from setting ponder=off and playing really interesting matches, but with some sort of asinine stability doesn't listen at all to others and uses his own brain to completely screw up the setup for months on end.

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:25 pm
by Wolfgang
pohl4711 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:56 am
...But SF=32 Threads, Leela=2 Threads with ponder on on a 16core CPU is nonsense.
+1
to be precise: it is complete nonsense

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:50 pm
by mwyoung
pohl4711 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:56 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:13 am
Laskos wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 am
mwyoung wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am
Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Hardware 2950x, RTX 2080 ti
Stockfish 32 Thread, 8 Gb HT
Leela Chess Zero 2 threads, 9900000 NN CS.
6 man Tablebase
100 million position book with optimal setting.
Move cutoff set at 100 games played in the position.
TC= 15m/40
Ponder = On

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gogSaQSDWRI
Omg, I think people told you dozens of times --- why ponder = on? 32 threaded SF on 16 core machine ponder on? Ponder = on is completely wrecking your games. You would better use 1kW electric power on a fridge for ice creams.
OMG get over it. I can run a fridge and a computer.
On a 16core CPU there are only 32 Threads (if Hyperthreading is activated). So, if ponder is on and Leela is running on 2 Threads, Stockfish may not use more than 30 Threads, of course. Otherwise the results will be distorted, because the number of used threads is 32+2=34.
And it is better, to keep 1 free Thread for Windows.
So, if you want to play with pondering: SF=29 Threads, Leela=2 Threads and 1 free Thread for the OS. And everything is fine.
But SF=32 Threads, Leela=2 Threads with ponder on on a 16core CPU is nonsense.
You are on the right track. So when does 32 +2 not equal 34 in computer chess. As you can see from the stream. I am not getting crashes or performance issues. What is my configuration to work around this issue....

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm
by jhellis3
You are getting performance issues, whether you are aware of them or not.

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:25 pm
by mwyoung
jhellis3 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm
You are getting performance issues, whether you are aware of them or not.
Really. What is the issue? What program and by how much.

Some people think they know how computers work. And trap themselves in a mental box.

32 + 2. :lol:

Re: Leela Chess Zero 42565 vs Stockfish 140619

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:20 pm
by Nordlandia
mwyoung: the math does not go up. Stockfish make claim of 100% cpu by itself. There is clearly performance interference whether you can notice it or not. Leela need 1-2 threads to feed the gpu. Those threads messes the game up because they're already used by stockfish. That being said, the streaming recording device make also claim of cpu time so leaving 1-thread free for the OS make total sense. SF=29 threads - Lc0=2 threads and 1 thread free for the operating system for free flow/background tasks and no slowdown.

Graham Banks said this on chess2u few years ago.

"I should add that each engine should access tablebases from a different drive in order to avoid clashes on the hard drive"

It's a good point, i'll do it. I have 2 SSDs, so i'll place 5-men syzygy on each and give each engine seperate directory for syzygy.

Look at this thread.

https://chess.stackexchange.com/questio ... nent-brain

And this one

http://www.chess2u.com/t4335-ponder-on-or-off