MVL vs. Komodo handicap match

[lkaufman]

Hi,
Any chance the MVLvsKomodo games could be published? Are they available anywhere?

Thanks,
CL

I suppose they will be in a day or two.

[lkaufman]

Hi,
Any chance the MVLvsKomodo games could be published? Are they available anywhere?

Thanks,
CL

Actually they are available now on chess.com, just log in to play, go to archive, request "PlayKomodo" games, and the last six as of now (with LyonBeast) are the MVL handicap games.

[JJJ]

Well, seems I was very wrong after all. I didn't think Maxime would loose so many games. But at least he won one of them. Some other GM would have draw all game I guess, but it wouldn't be very attractive to see.

[lkaufman]

Well, seems I was very wrong after all. I didn't think Maxime would loose so many games. But at least he won one of them. Some other GM would have draw all game I guess, but it wouldn't be very attractive to see.

Yes, his prize money set one win equal to four draws, so he wouldn't take draws while still clearly better on the board. In any case he knew that it would look cowardly to do so, and would make the show less interesting. It's easy to make draws at these handicaps if that is the goal, because we can't set Contempt high enough to avoid them without clearly hurting the playing strength. The game he won was the handicap I considered to be his best chance for a win.

[JJJ]

I agree. How do you feel about this match Larry ? Will you propose again the handicap Komodo lost ? Or will you try a new one ?
I m still interested to see a GM against Komodo at 1 + 1 against a big handicap. Maybe Komodo would even win at queen handicap at bullet ? Could be extra match.

With all my respect,

Jean-Baptiste.

[lkaufman]

I agree. How do you feel about this match Larry ? Will you propose again the handicap Komodo lost ? Or will you try a new one ?
I m still interested to see a GM against Komodo at 1 + 1 against a big handicap. Maybe Komodo would even win at queen handicap at bullet ? Could be extra match.

With all my respect,

Jean-Baptiste.

We are all pleased with this match, the results, the commentary, the viewer reaction, etc. Chess.com indicated a preference for somewhat faster games, so we are discussing it. I already proposed including 1' + 1" next time, but you are way off to talk about queen odds. I'm pretty sure that the fairest handicap at this level for a top-ten player is knight odds. We know from experience that knight odds is about right at 5' + 5" for players in the 2200 to 2300 FIDE range, about right at 3' + 2" for 2600 level GMs, and so it should be about right at 1' + 1" for 2800 level GMs. Remember, in the opening a knight is worth about four pawns, not 3, so the handicaps given to MVL were on average just a tad over half of knight odds. When the handicap gets too big, we can't make Contempt work well. If we set it too low, it will just allow trading down to a lost endgame. But if we set it too high, it will try so hard to avoid trades that it won't play good moves. As long as there is even one second increment, top GMs will be able to win endgames with an extra piece or more in general. If it was just 1' with no increment even rook odds won't be enough, because Komodo can make the game last many moves and win on time, but that's not interesting in my opinion. Anyway I'm sure there will be more matches in the near future.

[JJJ]

Yes indeed, So lost without increment at knight handicap : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu-pSaN62lc

So I was thinking he might loose at queen handicap without time increment.

In anycase, increment and knight handicap would be nice to watch.

[Uri Blass]

The significant mistakes of MVL at rapid game 1 based on analysis with stockfish:

[d]r2qk2r/pp2b1pp/2p2n2/3b4/3Q4/2NB4/PP3PPP/R1B1R1K1 w kq - 2 12

12.Bg5? allowed black to castle

12.Qe5 Bf7 13.Bc2 Kf8 14.Bf4 was winning for white(score of more than 3.5 pawns based on stockfish when black has no better alternative).

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2b1pp/5n2/3p2B1/3Q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 14

14.Re2

14.Qh4 Rf7 15.Bxf6 gxf6 16.Bf5 was still a big advantage for white(more than 2.5 pawns and increasing based on stockfish)

[d]5r2/pp3rkp/1b3np1/3pR1B1/8/3B3P/PP2RPP1/6K1 w - - 2 25

25.Bh4 lost the advantage for white
25.Be3 was still better for white.

[d]5r2/pp2Rrkp/6p1/3p4/7B/3n3P/PP1R1KP1/8 w - - 0 30

30.Ke3 leads to inferior position for white.
better was 30.Kg3 or 30.Kg1

[d]8/pp6/6p1/3K2kp/8/6PP/PP4R1/4r3 w - - 3 38

38.Kd6 was the losing blunder.
38.Rf2 is probably enough for a draw.

[Uri Blass]

Mistakes in the second game.

MVL won a pawn and could simply defend it but for some reason decided not to do it.

[d]3r2k1/ppp1qpbp/4bnp1/1P2p3/4P3/3B1N1P/2PN1PP1/R1B2RK1 b - - 3 13

Ra8 was winning and the move I could probably play here but for some reason MVL played Nh5

Stockfish_18090410_x64_modern:

32/50 02:07 358,962k 2,821k +3.04 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1 Nh5 15.Ba3 Qe8 16.Ng5 Nf4 17.Nxe6 Nxe6 18.Bc4 Nd4 19.Nf3 Nxf3+ 20.gxf3 a5 21.bxa6 b5 22.Bd3 Rxa6 23.Bxb5 Qxb5 24.Rd8+ Bf8 25.Rxf8+ Kg7 26.Rd8 Rc6 27.Kg2 Rxc2 28.Rc1 Rxc1 29.Bxc1 Kf6 30.Rd5 Qb6 31.Be3 Qb7 32.Rd8 Qc6 33.Rb8 Qd7 34.Ra8 Kg7 35.Bc5
33/46+ 02:20 398,549k 2,834k +3.13 13. ... Ra8
33/46+ 02:22 405,309k 2,837k +3.21 13. ... Ra8
33/47+ 02:34 439,515k 2,845k +3.34 13. ... Ra8
33/53- 03:00 513,145k 2,837k +2.95 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1
33/53 03:37 606,230k 2,792k +3.16 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1 Nh5 15.Ba3 Qd8 16.Bc5 Bh6 17.Nc4 f6 18.Ne3 Nf4 19.Bf1 Qe8 20.Ng4 Bg7 21.Ne3 Bf8 22.Bxf8 Kxf8 23.c4 Bd7 24.Nd2 Kg7 25.Nd5 Ne6 26.Nb3 h5 27.Nc3 Qe7 28.Nd5 Qf7 29.Nc3 c6 30.b6 a6 31.c5 Qe8
34/46+ 03:48 640,534k 2,807k +3.25 13. ... Ra8
34/48+ 04:23 746,776k 2,830k +3.33 13. ... Ra8
34/51 04:54 833,018k 2,829k +3.17 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1 Nh5 15.Ba3 Qd8 16.Bc5 Bh6 17.Nc4 f6 18.Ne3 Qe8 19.Bf1 b6 20.Ng4 Bg7 21.Be3 Nf4 22.g3 Nxh3+ 23.Bxh3 h5 24.Nxf6+ Bxf6 25.Bf1 Kg7 26.Rdb1 c6 27.c4 c5 28.Bd2 Qe7 29.Bc3 Bg4 30.Nh2 Bc8 31.Nf3 g5 32.Ra2 Bb7 33.Nd2 h4 34.Rba1 hxg3
35/49 05:12 884,330k 2,832k +3.24 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1 Nh5 15.Ba3 Qd8 16.Bc5 Bh6 17.Nc4 f6 18.Ne3 Qe8 19.Bf1 b6 20.Ng4 Bg7 21.Be3 Nf4 22.g3 Nxh3+ 23.Bxh3 h5 24.Nxf6+ Bxf6 25.Bf1 Kg7 26.Rdb1 c6 27.bxc6 Qxc6 28.Bd3 Bg4 29.Nd2 Bc8 30.Nf3 Be6 31.Ra6 Bc4 32.Ra3 Bxd3 33.cxd3 Qd7 34.Rba1 Qe7 35.Ra6 g5
36/48- 05:23 919,832k 2,840k +3.15 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1
36/49+ 05:35 953,999k 2,842k +3.24 13. ... Ra8
36/49 06:00 1,026,276k 2,848k +3.28 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1 Nh5 15.Ba3 Qd8 16.Nc4 f6 17.Ne3 Nf4 18.Bf1 Qc8 19.Be7 Qe8 20.Bb4 Bf8 21.Bxf8 Kxf8 22.h4 c6 23.c4 Bf7 24.Rd6 cxb5 25.cxb5 Kg7 26.Rad1 Ne6 27.Bc4 Rd8 28.Rxd8 Nxd8 29.Bxf7 Nxf7 30.Rd5 Qe7 31.Nd2
37/48- 06:18 1,079,109k 2,847k +3.19 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1
37/48- 06:31 1,115,521k 2,850k +3.11 13. ... Ra8 14.Rd1
37/48+ 06:55 1,186,534k 2,853k +3.19 13. ... Ra8
37/48+ 07:22 1,263,079k 2,855k +3.38 13. ... Ra8
37/55 21:10 3,721,007k 2,928k +3.36 13. ... Ra8 14.Re1 h6 15.Ba3 Qe8 16.Bf1 Nh5 17.Reb1 Nf4 18.Bc5 b6 19.Be3 Bd7 20.Ra6 Ne6 21.Bd3 c5 22.Ra3 Nc7 23.c4 f5 24.Nb3 f4 25.Bd2 Ne6 26.Bc3 Qb8 27.Rba1 Bf6 28.R3a2 Kg7 29.Ra6 g5 30.Bc2 Nd4 31.Nbxd4 exd4 32.Bd2

[d]3r2k1/1Rp1qpbp/4b1p1/1P2p3/4Pn2/3B1N1P/2PN1PP1/2B2RK1 b - - 0 15

Here MVL still had a good advantage(2.57 pawns based on stockfish) in case of playing 15...Nxd3 but he chose 15...Qc5

[d]r5k1/1Rp2pbp/1P1qb1p1/4p3/4Pn2/3BBN1P/2P2PP1/1N3RK1 b - - 0 18

MVL still could keep the advantage in case of playing 18...Nxd3 with advantage of more than 2 pawns but he chose 18...c5 and lost all the advantage.

[d]1r4k1/R4pbp/1Pq1b1p1/2p5/2N1Pp2/3B1N1P/2P2PP1/5RK1 b - - 1 22

Here 22...Rxb6 could be enough for equality but Mvl played 22...Qb5? 23.Nfd2 g5?(black still had chances for a draw by 23...Bxc4 24.Nxc4 Rxb6)

[Paloma]

Actually they are available now on chess.com, just log in to play, go to archive, request "PlayKomodo" games, and the last six as of now (with LyonBeast) are the MVL handicap games.

Thanks Larry,
but where is GM hissha ?