ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

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APassionForCriminalJustic
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by APassionForCriminalJustic » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:00 pm

lucasart wrote:
mcostalba wrote:
mvk wrote:
PaulieD wrote:If Stockfish 6 will not be present the "Championships" will be meaningless.
Komodo might show up to, to complete the work of the sekretariat. If that happens the organisation should play the GUNDA-1 card with SF6 and get some kind of competition.
It is not far from my house, yet I will not enter or watch. Personally I favor the TCEC format to decide on world championship.
After they have pathetically changed the link of their site http://komodochess.com/ to point to the only rating list in which Komodo is still #1 (because SF 6 still has not been tested there!) I expect anything out of them, even that Komodo participates icga and gives up TCEC (like Hiarcs did).

I have respect for Komodo people, but I starting to see they are steering to desperate (and, sorry to say, quite pity) actions. They are commercial, they need to get money out of this Komodo thing, I understand this, nevertheless....
SF is being tested by CEGT 40/120 now:
http://cegt.forumieren.com/t290-testing ... sh-6-0-x64

And the myth that Komodo beats SF at super LTC will be debunked. I wonder what new rating list they will find after that, to change the link on their website :lol:
Debunked? Tests running on a 4770 four-core piece of garbage won't debunk anything.

PaulieD
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by PaulieD » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:08 pm

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote: Debunked? Tests running on a 4770 four-core piece of garbage won't debunk anything.
There is nothing to "debunk" SF6 is leading on almost all rating lists except one under testing now, where SF6 is currently leading. This carries much more statistical significance than one man's opinion. Data rules !
With the huge ELO jump with 16 cores for SF6 there should be nothing to fear from K8 in any setting.

APassionForCriminalJustic
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by APassionForCriminalJustic » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:32 pm

PaulieD wrote:
APassionForCriminalJustic wrote: Debunked? Tests running on a 4770 four-core piece of garbage won't debunk anything.
There is nothing to "debunk" SF6 is leading on almost all rating lists except one under testing now, where SF6 is currently leading. This carries much more statistical significance than one man's opinion. Data rules !
With the huge ELO jump with 16 cores for SF6 there should be nothing to fear from K8 in any setting.
The so-called huge Elo jump is not for Stockfish 6 (there is no way that the patch is worth 50 Elo at very long time controls). One man's opinion? I do not disagree that Stockfish is number one on all rating lists, but it doesn't mean much considering that Komodo 9 has not yet been released (this is intentional obviously by Mark and Larry). My main focal point here is that a few of these Stockfish team members are acting low class and arrogant. Mark has always shown great respect for Stockfish; hence why should the favor not be returned? I personally do not care about the rating lists with low-end hardware (IMHO). Komodo has proven to shine when running on high-end hardware which is what I run. Considering that the TCEC tournament is the OFFICIAL World Computer Chess Championship, it should be the true measurement of an engines' LTC strength, and it should be what actually matters when it comes to determining the LTC-engine champion. Therefore, the CEGT rating list (40/120) debunks nothing. There is no myth Lucas.

Show some respect for the current champion; it is not Stockfish.

mcostalba
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by mcostalba » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:43 pm

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote: My main focal point here is that a few of these Stockfish team members are acting low class and arrogant.
As foreseen whipping is coming on me now, btw this clerical should be a new one, perhaps I missed this one before....but the approach is always the same: never reply and comment on the specific points but just start whipping wildy and blindly.

And becuase it seems in 2015 the earth is _still_ flat and fixed, it is time for me to go away...

Michel
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by Michel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:44 pm

My main focal point here is that a few of these Stockfish team members are acting low class and arrogant.
Precisely!
Ideas=science. Simplification=engineering.
Without ideas there is nothing to simplify.

PaulieD
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by PaulieD » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:48 pm

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote: Show some respect for the current champion; it is not Stockfish.
I have full respect for Larry, Mark and (Don Dailey RIP) for the incredible work that they have done with Komodo.
Statistically even TCEC has little value due to the size of the error bars on that number of games.
However, it is the best we currently have (due to time restrictions).

"Current" is hard to define in this ever changing environment of daily, weekly and monthly version updates that is now part of the computer chess engine world. In this environment a 2-3 month old rating list or tournament result can become outdated very quickly. If current means as of today, than even the last TCEC is ancient history now.

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michiguel
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by michiguel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:51 pm

Isaac wrote:I agree that calling Komodo 8 the #1 chess program in the world when Stockfish 6 is leading in every single rating list where both K8 and SF6 are included, is a deceptive advertising and an insult to the Stockfish's programmers.
I also agree that the official world championship is nothing but a bad joke, at least nowadays.
A member of SF team (Lucas) said in this thread
"The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to."

The last winner is Komodo, then, by their own standards, Komodo is #1 (until next TCEC). I think that is the end of the conversation.

I cannot understand all the bickering in this community. Rather than talking about who may or may not compete in one tournament that was just announced (we do not have many!), all the negativity started in just the first reply. Why?

Miguel
PS: I do not agree TCEC is a true World Championship (though it is the most prestigious competition today), but that is not the point.

Isaac
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by Isaac » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:54 pm

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:
Isaac wrote:I agree that calling Komodo 8 the #1 chess program in the world when Stockfish 6 is leading in every single rating list where both K8 and SF6 are included, is a deceptive advertising and an insult to the Stockfish's programmers.
I also agree that the official world championship is nothing but a bad joke, at least nowadays.
Do you not think that the Komodo team is being insulted here? There is no deceptive advertising. People can read what each engines ratings are and see their placement. This is not rocket science. Does "Two-time Winner of the TCEC tournament!" sound deceptive to you?
I do not think that the Komodo team is being insulted at all. Yes there is deceptive advertising, claiming being number 1 and linking to a rating list where SF6 is absent and knowing that SF6 took the number 1 spot from Komodo in all the rating lists where they are both ranked is dishonest to say the least.
People who click the link given in the Komodo website cannot see that SF6 took the lead everywhere it is present, and ahead of Komodo 8. So I do not agree with you on that point either.
Komodo 8 has been only once the TCEC champion and as Martin said, the TCEC is not there to determine which engine is the strongest, for this purpose you have the rating lists. TCEC is just for entertainment.


Edit: @Miguel I agree. If they claim to be #1 in the last TCEC season they are right and should precise they're talking about the TCEC and not elo rating. Because as it is now, it looks like Komodo 8 is the #1 in both elo and TCEC which is not true.

Michel
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by Michel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:56 pm

I cannot understand all the bickering in this community. Rather than talking about who may or may not compete in one tournament that was just announced (we do not have many!), all the negativity started in just the first reply. Why?
Indeed why?

Why do Lucas and Marco always find it necessary to insult everyone and their dog?? I suspect these guys have serious issues in real life and are just venting their frustration here.
Ideas=science. Simplification=engineering.
Without ideas there is nothing to simplify.

Sedat Canbaz
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Re: ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:04 pm

mcostalba wrote:
APassionForCriminalJustic wrote: My main focal point here is that a few of these Stockfish team members are acting low class and arrogant.
As foreseen whipping is coming on me now, btw this clerical should be a new one, perhaps I missed this one before....but the approach is always the same: never reply and comment on the specific points but just start whipping wildy and blindly.

And becuase it seems in 2015 the earth is _still_ flat and fixed, it is time for me to go away...
Dear Marco,

I think he (Adam Kostas) was meaning Lucas, not you !

I believe that,
Majority of us highly appreciate your valuable work...
Personally I estimate, without you, SF would be much much weaker than nowadays...

Keep up the good work,
Sedat

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