lucasart wrote:Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.
SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.
The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.
What was the last event YOU went to? Do you know what an attended tournament is like?
Your comments are pure rubbish.
I do not see why his comments are rubbish. He didn't exactly say things necessarily in a friendly manner - but you guys should consider changing the title of this "2015 World Computer Chess Championship" because it clearly is not. It is a tournament where authors get together and discuss things; is that not a major focal point of this tournament? Why on earth do you guys seriously have a title like this when your tournament will not actually show who the REAL engine champion is? I mean look at the engine participants. They are far from top-tier status to say the least. I am willing to bet that Rybka 4.1 would win that tournament unless Komodo participates.
Seriously, the authors of both HIARCS and Deep Junior should stop proclaiming their engines as champions (they are both amateurs compared to the best); they are lying right through their thick teeth.
In with the new, out with the old.
TCEC RULES! ****** Long live the real World Computer Chess Championship ******
You're a troll. I don't believe you know much about computer chess. Your post is pure rubbish.
lucasart wrote:Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.
SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.
The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.
What was the last event YOU went to? Do you know what an attended tournament is like?
Your comments are pure rubbish.
I do not see why his comments are rubbish. He didn't exactly say things necessarily in a friendly manner - but you guys should consider changing the title of this "2015 World Computer Chess Championship" because it clearly is not. It is a tournament where authors get together and discuss things; is that not a major focal point of this tournament? Why on earth do you guys seriously have a title like this when your tournament will not actually show who the REAL engine champion is? I mean look at the engine participants. They are far from top-tier status to say the least. I am willing to bet that Rybka 4.1 would win that tournament unless Komodo participates.
Seriously, the authors of both HIARCS and Deep Junior should stop proclaiming their engines as champions (they are both amateurs compared to the best); they are lying right through their thick teeth.
In with the new, out with the old.
TCEC RULES! ****** Long live the real World Computer Chess Championship ******
You're a troll. I don't believe you know much about computer chess. Your post is pure rubbish.
1337 suits you.
Wow Terry, you are real smart. Look at you bud. What exactly do you know? My comment that you referred isn't rubbish at all. Pretty sad that people like you defend this sad tournament that doesn't produce a real champion. How about you enjoy it while I enjoy the real deal. Trolls don't speak truth... I know quite a bit about computer chess... since I run engines 24/7... and I follow what is going on in the community. World computer chess championship. Why don't you explain to me how this is the world computer chess championship when it has error bars the size of the sun and weak participants? You aren't that bright are you? Wake the heck up. Pathetic.
TCEC is the only tournament that really means anything. If you don't get that then too bad. So don't be insulting me.
1337 chess pro is an awesome book. What is your point? I cannot believe the amount of persons who can't see how wrongly named this tournament is... denial is such a disgusting thing. Guess what happens when deep junior plays in the real tournament? It gets squashed.
lucasart wrote:Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.
SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.
The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.
What was the last event YOU went to? Do you know what an attended tournament is like?
Your comments are pure rubbish.
I do not see why his comments are rubbish. He didn't exactly say things necessarily in a friendly manner - but you guys should consider changing the title of this "2015 World Computer Chess Championship" because it clearly is not. It is a tournament where authors get together and discuss things; is that not a major focal point of this tournament? Why on earth do you guys seriously have a title like this when your tournament will not actually show who the REAL engine champion is? I mean look at the engine participants. They are far from top-tier status to say the least. I am willing to bet that Rybka 4.1 would win that tournament unless Komodo participates.
Seriously, the authors of both HIARCS and Deep Junior should stop proclaiming their engines as champions (they are both amateurs compared to the best); they are lying right through their thick teeth.
In with the new, out with the old.
TCEC RULES! ****** Long live the real World Computer Chess Championship ******
You're a troll. I don't believe you know much about computer chess. Your post is pure rubbish.
1337 suits you.
Wow Terry, you are real smart. Trolls don't speak truth... I know quite a bit about computer chess... since I run engines 24/7 You aren't that bright are you? Wake the heck up. Pathetic.
So don't be insulting me.
1337 chess pro is an awesome book. What is your point?
Yes, I am very smart. You don't speak the truth. You're an engine tester, whoopdy fricken do!
You mean you're not that bright. Give yourself a shake and yes you're pathetic I don't have to insult you as you're doing such a fine job insulting yourself. 1337 is hacker code.
An even better example, "the Higgs Boson." Theory predicts that it exists. Experiments have been ongoing for years in an attempt to prove that the theory is correct.
Perhaps sometimes an observation might lead to an experiment and then to a theory, but normally it is the inverse as you said. I wonder what "experiment" the "big bang theory" came from? Or the theory that the universe is still expanding?
lucasart wrote:even without book/tb and running on a cell phone, sf (or komodo) could win this pathetic event…
Well, 24 i7 cores, book, TBs were not sufficient.
True enough! I'm very happy to see Jonny win gold after so many years of participation. And it shows there is still room for Big Iron (2400 core cluster in this case) in the championships. And that participants should take their tournament book prep more seriously.
That said, it was Komodo's championship to throw away. Jonny-Komodo was dead drawn when Komodo snagged that poisoned pawn.
lucasart wrote:even without book/tb and running on a cell phone, sf (or komodo) could win this pathetic event…
Well, 24 i7 cores, book, TBs were not sufficient.
Yes, this result is quite surprising. Despite Jonny's monstruous CPU horse-power, I still expected Komodo to win.
But comparing engines, using only 8 games, with different hardware, different opening books, and manual operation (which causes extra lags that that can cause engines to lose on time)... As a statistician, wouldn't you say that's really stupid?
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.
lucasart wrote:even without book/tb and running on a cell phone, sf (or komodo) could win this pathetic event…
Well, 24 i7 cores, book, TBs were not sufficient.
Yes, this result is quite surprising. Despite Jonny's monstruous CPU horse-power, I still expected Komodo to win.
But comparing engines, using only 8 games, with different hardware, different opening books, and manual operation (which causes extra lags that that can cause engines to lose on time)... As a statistician, wouldn't you say that's really stupid?
This is not different than a human tournament where each player uses their own book preparation. And the resulting error bars are the same in a human tournament. So the result here is just as valid as a human tournament.
lucasart wrote:even without book/tb and running on a cell phone, sf (or komodo) could win this pathetic event…
Well, 24 i7 cores, book, TBs were not sufficient.
Yes, this result is quite surprising. Despite Jonny's monstruous CPU horse-power, I still expected Komodo to win.
But comparing engines, using only 8 games, with different hardware, different opening books, and manual operation (which causes extra lags that that can cause engines to lose on time)... As a statistician, wouldn't you say that's really stupid?
I am am not saying WCCC is of some worth, at least for someone who needs the strongest engine. Just a funny competition combining the dice with some skills (not only the playing skills in same conditions, there are hardware skills, book skills), more like a soccer match or even more random. You replied with the cell phone SF to win WCCC to a discussion initiated by my post, that's why I remembered the topic:
Laskos wrote:If there are 11 engines, 10 games each engine, and say 5 engines 200 Elo points weaker than SF at LTC and equal hardware, 4 engines 400 Elo weaker, then taking into account the hardware fluctuations and book fluctuations, SF has LESS than 50% to win WCCC.
