Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

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bigo

Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by bigo »

[D] 2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - - 0 1


This position taken from the CCC archives gave all the programs of the day a headache to solve. I thought the newer programs would find it much easier.

Rxa3!!
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
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Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Glaurung Mjolnir sees the solution in 6 minutes 7 seconds:


2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - -

Engine: Glaurung 2.0.1 Mjolnir 001b (256 MB, Athlon 2009 MHz)
by Tord Romstad

10.00 0:00 +0.82 1.Ne3 Nb5 2.Rac2 Na3 3.Rb2 Bb5 4.Ng4 Ba6
5.Kg1 Bb5 (190.859) 210

11.01 0:02 +0.76 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Qe1 Nc2 (1.083.820) 385

12.01 0:03 +0.76 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Kg3 Bc6 7.Kg2 (1.447.053) 402

13.01 0:05 +0.60 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Nd1 R3c7 7.Ra2 Nc2 (2.372.725) 433

14.01 0:10 +0.72 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Rh3 R8c7 7.Kg1 Rc1+
8.Kh2 Rc8 (4.648.470) 459

15.01 0:18 +0.68 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Rh3 R8c7 7.Qf2 Rc1 8.Kh2 Bd3 (9.118.202) 483

16.01 0:59 +0.47 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Nb5
5.Rc2 Rxc2 6.Nxc2 Nc3 7.Rh4 Rc7
8.Ne3 Ne4 9.Nxe4 dxe4 10.Nc4 (29.411.183) 496

16.04 1:19 +0.94 1.Nh3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Ba8 4.Raa1 Bb7
5.Kg1 Rc6 6.Qd3 Ba6 7.c4 Na3 8.Qh3 dxc4 (39.838.298) 499

17.01 1:47 +1.07 1.Nh3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Ba8 4.Raa1 Bb7
5.Kg1 Ba8 6.Ra4 Bc6 7.Ra2 Bb7 8.Rh2 Qa3
9.Rb1 (54.144.721) 504

17.09 2:20 +1.13 1.Kg1 Nb5 2.Qe3 Ra7 3.Nb2 Rac7 4.Na4 Rc6
5.Qd3 Qh6 6.Rg2 R6c7 7.c4 dxc4
8.Rxc4 Rb8 9.Rxc7 Nxc7 10.Nc3 (71.593.634) 508

18.01 2:36 +1.33 1.Kg1 Nb5 2.Qe3 Ra7 3.Nb2 Rac7 4.Na4 Rc6
5.Qd3 Qh6 6.Rg2 R6c7 7.c4 dxc4
8.Rxc4 Rb8 9.Nc3 Qh5 10.Rxc7 Nxc7 (79.996.836) 510

19.01 3:29 +1.13 1.Kg1 Nb5 2.Qe3 Ra7 3.Nb2 Rac7 4.Na4 Rc6
5.Qd3 Qh6 6.Rg2 R6c7 7.c4 dxc4
8.Rxc4 Rb8 9.Nc3 Qh4 10.Rxc7 Nxc7
11.Qe3 (108.477.021) 516

19.02 6:07 +5.47 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Nf2 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 11.Qa8+ Rd8 12.Qxd8+ Kxd8
13.Nxf7+ Kd7 14.Nxh8 (198.251.647) 539

20.01 7:40 +5.70 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 Be2 6.Ng5+ Kg8
7.Ne4 Kh7 8.axb6 dxe4 9.bxc7 Rxc7
10.Ne3 Bf3+ 11.Kf2 Kh6 (250.404.712) 544



Glaurung 2.0.1 Default needs 8 minutes 44 seconds:


2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - -

Engine: Glaurung 2.0.1 default (256 MB)
by Tord Romstad

10.00 0:00 +0.74 1.Ne3 Nb5 2.Rac2 Na3 3.Rb2 Bb5 4.Ra2 Qh6
5.Nxd5 exd5 6.Rxa3 (185.931) 224

11.00 0:01 +0.84 1.Ne3 Nb5 2.Rac2 Na3 3.Rb2 Bb5 4.Kg1 Bd7
5.Ra2 Bb5 6.Qh2 Rxc3 (352.916) 297

12.01 0:03 +0.76 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Kg3 Bc6 7.Kg2 (1.488.079) 410

13.01 0:05 +0.72 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bb5 6.Rh3 Qe8 7.Qe1 Nc2 (2.303.248) 433

14.01 0:15 +0.52 1.Ne3 b5 2.Raa1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4
4.Rxc7 Rxc7 5.Rc1 Rxc1 6.Qxc1 Nb5
7.Qd2 Nc3 8.Kg3 Qh6 9.Ng4 (7.292.179) 470

15.01 0:37 +0.47 1.Ne3 b5 2.Raa1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4
4.Rxc7 Rxc7 5.Rc1 Rxc1 6.Qxc1 Nb5
7.Qd2 Nc3 8.Kg3 Bb5 9.Kg4 Be2+
10.Kg3 (18.187.716) 485

15.02 0:43 +1.21 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Bb7 4.Kg1 Ba6
5.Rac2 Bb7 6.Qd3 Ba6 7.Rh2 Qa3 8.Qb1 (21.013.845) 487

16.01 0:50 +1.29 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Bb7 4.Kg1 Ba8
5.Rac2 Na3 6.Rh2 Nb5 7.Qd3 Qa3 8.Rb1 Bc6 (25.028.874) 491

17.01 1:02 +1.29 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Bb7 4.Kg1 Rd7
5.Rh2 Qa3 6.Rb1 a4 7.Qd3 Ba6 8.Nxf7+ Rxf7
9.Qxg6 Rcf8 (31.062.667) 497

18.01 1:35 +1.23 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bc6 3.Ng5 Bb7 4.Kg1 Rd7
5.Rh2 Rc6 6.Qd3 Ba6 7.Rh3 Qa3
8.Nxf7+ Rxf7 9.Qxg6 Qf8 10.Nf2 (48.250.590) 503

18.07 4:52 +1.47 1.Qe3 Nb5 2.Kg1 Ra7 3.Kf1 Rcc7 4.Nb2 Rc6
5.Raa1 Rac7 6.Na4 Rc8 7.Kg1 R6c7
8.c4 dxc4 9.Nxb6 Rd8 (148.980.785) 508

19.01 5:50 +1.41 1.Qe3 Nb5 2.Kg1 Ra7 3.Nb2 Rac7 4.Na4 Rc6
5.Kg2 R8c7 6.Raa1 Rc8 7.Kf1 R6c7
8.Kg1 Na3 9.Qh3 Bxa4 10.bxa4 Nc4 (178.287.821) 508

19.09 8:44 +5.47 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Nf2 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 11.Qa8+ Rd8 12.Qxd8+ Kxd8
13.Nxf7+ Kd7 14.Nxh8 (275.608.954) 525

20.01 11:49 +5.88 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Nf2 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 11.Nxf7 Kxf7 12.Ng5+ Ke8
13.Qxb5 (376.627.078) 530
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
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Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Eelco de Groot »

It is also possible to make settings for Tord's new Glaurung that are faster in finding some tactics. This is a recent try, version 001e2:


2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - -

Engine: Glaurung 2.0.1 Mjolnir Tactical Settings 001e2 (256 MB)
by Tord Romstad

10.00 0:01 +0.96 1.Nb2 Rc6 2.Kg1 R8c7 3.Raa1 Rc8
4.Qe3 Nb5 5.c4 Qb4 (278.834) 240

11.01 0:01 -0.80 1.Nb2 Rxc3 2.Rxc3 Nb1 3.Rxc8 Nxd2
4.Na4 Nxb3 5.Nxb6 Nxd4 6.Rxa5 (564.102) 313

11.03 0:02 +0.74 1.Qd3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bd7 3.Raa1 Be8 4.Kg1 Rc6
5.Qd3 Qh6 6.Nxf7+ Bxf7 7.Qxb5 Kxh7 (774.692) 334

11.09 0:02 +0.84 1.Ne3 Nb5 2.Rac2 Na3 3.Rb2 Bb5 4.Kg1 Bd7
5.Ra2 Bb5 6.Qh2 Rxc3 (1.023.975) 360

12.01 0:05 +0.74 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bd7 6.Nd1 Rc2 7.Rxc2 Nxc2 (2.063.435) 390

13.01 0:06 +0.74 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rh1 Rc3
5.Rb2 Bd7 6.Rh2 Bb5 7.Qe1 Nc2 (2.786.500) 400

14.01 0:10 +0.58 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 Qxb4
4.Qxb4 axb4 5.Kf3 Nb5 6.Rd2 Rc3
7.Rb1 Na3 8.Rbb2 Nb5 (4.342.777) 420

15.01 0:37 +0.47 1.Ne3 b5 2.Rca1 b4 3.cxb4 Qxb4
4.Qxb4 axb4 5.Kf3 Nb5 6.Rd2 Nc3
7.Kf4 Bb5 8.Ra5 Ne2+ 9.Kg4 Nc3 (16.498.258) 442

15.03 0:47 +1.25 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bd7 3.Kg1 a4 4.Rxa4 Nxc3
5.Nxc3 Bxa4 6.bxa4 Kxh7 7.Ng5+ Kg8
8.Qh3 Qb4 9.Qh7+ Kf8 (21.029.566) 444

16.01 0:54 +1.15 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bd7 3.Ng5 Be8 4.Kg1 Ra8
5.Rac2 a4 6.bxa4 Na3 7.Rh2 Bxa4
8.Qh3 Nc4 (24.330.517) 446

17.01 1:09 +1.27 1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Qe3 Bd7 3.Ng5 Be8 4.Kg1 Ra8
5.Rd2 a4 6.b4 Bd7 7.Qh3 a3 8.Rcc2 Rac8
9.Rg2 (31.341.889) 452

17.11 1:40 +3.27 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Ne3 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 (46.985.319) 469

18.01 2:05 +4.31 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bc6 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 Rb7 6.a6 Ra7
7.Nf2 Rh8 8.Ng4 Kg8 9.Nh6+ Kf8
10.Qa3+ Ke8 (60.211.689) 478

19.01 3:19 +5.47 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Ne3 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 11.Qa8+ Rd8 12.Qxd8+ Kxd8
13.Nxf7+ Kd7 14.Nxh8 (98.013.162) 490

20.01 7:31 +5.88 1.Rxa3 Qxa3 2.b4 Bb5 3.Nf3 Qxc1
4.Qxc1 Kxh7 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Ne3 Rh8
7.Ng4 Kg8 8.Nh6+ Kf8 9.Qa3+ Ke8
10.Qxa5 Rd7 11.Nxf7 Kxf7 12.Ng5+ Ke8
13.Qxb5 (224.682.931) 497
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George Tsavdaris
Posts: 1627
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by George Tsavdaris »

bigo wrote:[D] 2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - - 0 1


This position taken from the CCC archives gave all the programs of the day a headache to solve. I thought the newer programs would find it much easier.
Rxa3!!
The somewhat old Chessmaster 10000 with my XQ-9 settings(settings to play aggressive and win Shredder 9 :D that do very well in test positions) find it in the impressive time 22 seconds!

AMD 3500+ 2.2 GHz, 128 MB hash was the hardware....

Analysis by CM10000-XQ9:

1.Kg2-g1 a5-a4 2.Ng5-f3 Be8-d7 3.Qd2-b2 Qf8-h6 4.Qb2xa3 Qh6-f4 5.Nf3-d2 Kh8xh7 6.b3xa4
+/- (1.10) Depth: 9 00:00:01 573kN
1.Kg2-g1 a5-a4 2.Rc1-a1 Na3-b5 3.Ra2xa4 Nb5xc3 4.Ra4-a7 Rc7xa7 5.Ra1xa7 Nc3xd1 6.Qd2xd1 Rc8-c3
+/- (0.94) Depth: 10 00:00:06 2288kN
1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Qd2-e3 Nb5-a7 3.Kg2-g1 Be8-b5 4.Ra2-g2 a5-a4 5.c3-c4 a4xb3 6.Qe3xb3 Rc7xc4
+/- (1.19) Depth: 10 00:00:08 3255kN
1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Qd2-e3 Nb5-a7 3.Kg2-g1 Be8-b5 4.Rc1-a1 Rc8-d8 5.Ra2-g2 a5-a4 6.b3xa4
+/- (1.20) Depth: 11 00:00:13 5116kN
1.Ra2xa3 Qf8xa3 2.b3-b4 Be8-b5 3.Ng5-e4 Kh8xh7 4.Nd1-f2 Qa3xc1 5.Qd2xc1 Rc8-h8 6.Ne4-d6 Bb5-c4 7.b4xa5 b6xa5 8.Kg2-f3
+- (2.88) Depth: 11 00:00:22 8731kN
1.Ra2xa3 Qf8xa3 2.b3-b4 Be8-b5 3.Ng5-f3 Qa3xc1 4.Qd2xc1 Kh8xh7 5.b4xa5 b6xa5 6.Nd1-e3 Rc8-h8 7.Ne3-g4 Kh7-g8 8.Ng4-h6+ Kg8-f8 9.Qc1-a3+ Kf8-e8 10.Qa3xa5
+- (2.82) Depth: 12 00:00:27 11282kN
1.Ra2xa3 a5-a4 2.Rc1-a1 b6-b5 3.Ra1-a2 Be8-c6 4.Kg2-g1 Bc6-e8 5.Kg1-f1 Be8-d7 6.Qd2-d3 b5-b4 7.c3xb4
+- (3.13) Depth: 13 00:01:35 42350kN
1.Ra2xa3 a5-a4 2.Rc1-a1 b6-b5 3.b3-b4 Be8-c6 4.Nd1-e3 Rc7-a7 5.Ra1-h1 Qf8-d8 6.Kg2-f2 Qd8-c7 7.Qd2-e2 Bc6-e8
+- (3.13) Depth: 14 00:02:35 70777kN
1.Ra2xa3 a5-a4 2.Rc1-a1 b6-b5 3.b3-b4 Be8-c6 4.Nd1-f2 Bc6-b7 5.Ra1-h1 Qf8-e8 6.Nf2-d3 Qe8-c6 7.Nd3-c5 Qc6-b6 8.Ra3-a1
+- (3.30) Depth: 15 00:04:30 125mN

After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Jouni
Posts: 3293
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Jouni »

No problem to F10 (it's faster than Glaurung in tactics):

Analysis by Fritz 10 (PC is prehistoric):

1.Nb2 b5
+- (2.01) Depth: 9/27 00:00:00 174kN
1.Nb2 b5 2.Nd3 b4 3.cxb4 Rxc1 4.Nxc1
+- (1.78) Depth: 9/55 00:00:00 439kN
1.Nb2 b5
+- (1.50) Depth: 10/24 00:00:01 751kN
1.Nb2 b5 2.Nd3 b4 3.cxb4 Rxc1 4.Nxc1 Nb1 5.Qe3 Rxc1 6.Qxc1
+- (1.50) Depth: 10/25 00:00:01 802kN
1.Nb2 Rxc3
± (1.21) Depth: 11/40 00:00:02 1790kN
1.Nb2 Rxc3 2.Rxc3
± (1.21) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 1800kN
1.Nf2
± (1.22) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 1913kN
1.Nf2 Nb5 2.Rac2 a4
± (1.22) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 1990kN
1.Ne3
± (1.23) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 2070kN
1.Ne3
± (1.38) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 2105kN
1.Rca1
± (1.39) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 2243kN
1.Rca1 Nb5 2.Rc2 a4 3.bxa4 Na3
± (1.39) Depth: 11/40 00:00:03 2267kN
1.Raa1
± (1.39) Depth: 11/40 00:00:04 2928kN
1.Raa1
+- (1.55) Depth: 11/40 00:00:04 3010kN
1.Raa1 b5 2.Nf2 b4 3.cxb4 axb4 4.Rxc7 Rxc7 5.Rc1 Rxc1 6.Qxc1 Nb5 7.Qe3 Nc3 8.Nd3 Bb5 9.Nc5
± (1.34) Depth: 12/28 00:00:06 4510kN
1.Rca1
± (1.34) Depth: 12/28 00:00:06 4566kN
1.Rca1 Nb5 2.Rc2 a4 3.bxa4 Na3 4.Rcc1 Bxa4
± (1.39) Depth: 12/28 00:00:06 4612kN
1.Nh3
± (1.40) Depth: 12/29 00:00:12 6408kN
1.Nh3
+- (1.55) Depth: 12/29 00:00:13 6548kN
1.Nh3 Bc6 2.Rca1 Nb5 3.Kg1 Be8 4.Rc1
+- (1.56) Depth: 12/38 00:00:13 7303kN
1.Nh3
+- (1.84) Depth: 13/31 00:00:14 7879kN
1.Nh3 Bc6 2.Rca1 Nb5 3.Qe3 Be8 4.Rc1
+- (1.87) Depth: 13/31 00:00:15 8314kN
1.Nf3
+- (1.87) Depth: 13/31 00:00:17 10171kN
1.Nf3 Bd7 2.Nb2 a4 3.bxa4 Nc4 4.Nxc4 Rxc4 5.Ng5 Bxa4 6.Rh1 b5 7.Rh3 Bb3 8.Ra7
+- (1.89) Depth: 14/33 00:00:22 13910kN
1.Nf3
+- (2.17) Depth: 15/37 00:00:32 22238kN
1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Raa1 Bd7 3.Ng5 Qe8 4.Kf2 Qf8 5.Kg1 Bc6 6.Nb2
+- (2.17) Depth: 16/34 00:00:44 32889kN
1.Nf3 Nb5 2.Raa1 Bd7 3.Ng5 Qe8 4.Kf2 Qf8 5.Kg1
+- (2.17) Depth: 17/42 00:01:06 51713kN
1.Rxa3
+- (2.17) Depth: 17/42 00:01:25 68777kN
1.Rxa3
+- (2.33) Depth: 17/42 00:01:28 71034kN
1.Rxa3
+- (2.64) Depth: 17/42 00:01:31 73603kN
1.Rxa3
+- (3.27) Depth: 17/42 00:01:36 78145kN
1.Rxa3 a4 2.Rca1 b5 3.bxa4 bxa4 4.Nb2 Ra7 5.Nd3 Rb7 6.Nc5 Rxc5 7.dxc5 Qxc5 8.Qf2 Qc7
+- (5.23) Depth: 17/48 00:03:48 194mN

I am very interested about F11 in test suites - no results yet?

Jouni
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El Gringo
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:01 pm

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by El Gringo »

Hi,

Results with fritz 11 on Q6600 @3Ghz :

New game - Fritz 11
2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Fritz 11:

+/= (0.38) 1.Nd1-b2 Rc7xc3 2.Ng5xe6 Qf8-b4 3.Rc1xc3 Qb4xc3 4.Qd2xc3 Rc8xc3 5.Ne6-g7 Be8-b5 6.Ra2xa3 Rc3-c2+ 00:00:00
+- (1.76) 1.Qd2-f4 Na3-b5 2.Qf4-e3 Rc8-d8 3.Kg2-g3 Be8-c6 4.Ra2-h2 Qf8-a3 5.Rc1-b1 00:00:00
+/- (1.20) 1.Qd2-f4 b6-b5 2.Qf4-e3 b5-b4 3.Qe3-d3 a5-a4 4.Ra2-b2 a4xb3 5.Rb2xb3 Qf8-h6 6.Qd3-e3 00:00:00
+- (1.49) 1.Kg2-g3 b6-b5 2.Kg3-g4 a5-a4 3.b3xa4 Na3-c4 4.Qd2-h2 b5xa4 5.Rc1-b1 a4-a3 00:00:00
+/- (1.32) 1.Kg2-g3 b6-b5 2.Kg3-g4 a5-a4 3.b3xa4 b5-b4 4.Ra2-a1 b4-b3 5.Nd1-e3 Be8xa4 6.Qd2-d3 00:00:00
+/- (0.97) 1.Kg2-g3 b6-b5 2.Kg3-g4 b5-b4 3.Qd2-e3 a5-a4 4.Ra2-b2 b4xc3 5.Rc1xc3 Rc7xc3 6.Nd1xc3 Qf8-b4 7.Nc3-e2 Na3-c4 00:00:01
+/- (1.16) 1.Nd1-e3 b6-b5 2.Rc1-a1 b5-b4 3.c3xb4 Qf8xb4 4.Kg2-f3 Be8-c6 5.Qd2xb4 a5xb4 6.Kf3-g4 Bc6-b5 7.Ra2-f2 Rc7-a7 00:00:01
+/- (1.00) 1.Nd1-e3 b6-b5 2.Rc1-a1 b5-b4 3.c3xb4 Qf8xb4 4.Qd2-d1 Rc7-c3 5.Ne3xd5 Qb4-b7 6.Ra2xa3 Qb7xd5+ 7.Kg2-f2 Rc3-c2+ 8.Kf2-g3 Rc2-g2+ 00:00:01
+/- (1.25) 1.Nd1-f2 Na3-b5 2.Ra2-c2 Nb5-a3 3.Rc2-b2 Na3-b5 4.Nf2-d1 Qf8-a3 5.Kg2-g1 Rc7-c6 6.Rc1-c2 Rc6-c7 7.Qd2-d3 00:00:02
+/- (1.07) 1.Nd1-f2 b6-b5 2.Ra2-a1 b5-b4 3.c3xb4 a5xb4 4.Rc1xc7 Rc8xc7 5.Ra1-h1 Rc7-c2 6.Qd2-e1 Rc2-c3 7.Qe1-d1 Be8-b5 8.Nf2-g4 Na3-c2 9.Qd1-d2 00:00:03
+/- (1.11) 1.Ng5-f3 Be8-d7 2.Nd1-e3 b6-b5 3.Rc1-a1 b5-b4 4.c3xb4 a5xb4 5.Nf3-g5 Bd7-b5 6.Ne3-g4 Rc7-c3 7.Ng4-h6 Bb5-e8 8.Ra1-h1 Rc3xb3 00:00:07
+- (1.73) 1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Kg2-g3 Be8-c6 3.Nf3-g5 Bc6-e8 4.Qd2-e3 Be8-d7 5.Kg3-f3 Rc7-a7 6.Ra2-h2 a5-a4 7.b3xa4 Ra7xa4 8.Kf3-g4 Rc8-a8 00:00:09
+- (1.74) 1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Kg2-g3 Be8-d7 3.Nf3-g5 Bd7-e8 4.Qd2-e3 Be8-d7 5.Kg3-f3 Bd7-c6 6.Kf3-g2 Bc6-e8 7.Kg2-g3 00:00:13
+- (1.74) 1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Kg2-g3 Be8-d7 3.Nf3-g5 Bd7-e8 4.Qd2-e3 Be8-d7 5.Kg3-f3 Bd7-e8 6.Kf3-g4 Be8-c6 7.Qe3-h3 Bc6-e8 8.Qh3-d3 Qf8-h6 9.c3-c4 Qh6-h5+ 00:00:15
+- (1.74) 1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Kg2-g3 Be8-d7 3.Nf3-g5 Bd7-e8 4.Ra2-a1 Be8-d7 5.Kg3-g4 Bd7-e8 6.Qd2-e3 Nb5-a3 7.Nd1-b2 Be8-b5 8.Nb2-a4 Bb5xa4 9.b3xa4 Na3-c4 10.Qe3-h3 00:00:20
+- (1.75) 1.Ng5-f3 Na3-b5 2.Kg2-g3 Be8-d7 3.Nf3-g5 Bd7-e8 4.Ra2-a1 Be8-d7 5.Kg3-g4 Bd7-e8 6.Ra1-a2 Be8-d7 7.Qd2-e3 Bd7-e8 8.Rc1-c2 Be8-d7 9.Ra2-a1 Bd7-e8 10.Qe3-d3 Qf8-h6 11.c3-c4 00:00:33
+- (4.79) 1.Ra2xa3 Qf8xa3 2.b3-b4 Be8-b5 3.Ng5-f3 Qa3xc1 4.Qd2xc1 Kh8xh7 5.b4xa5 b6xa5 6.Nd1-f2 Rc8-h8 7.Nf2-g4 Kh7-g8 8.Ng4-h6+ Kg8-f8 9.Qc1-a3+ Kf8-e8 10.Qa3xa5 Rc7-d7 00:00:52

Best
Johan
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Alessandro Scotti

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Alessandro Scotti »

Latest Hamsters can also find it, though it needs time (on 1.66 GHz Core Duo):

Code: Select all

15/56 0:38.80 135 12899219 Nf3 Nb5 Kg1 Na7 Ng5 Nb5 Qe3 Bc6 Qh3 Be8 Rd2 Na3 Nf2 Bb5 Ng4
16/56 1:09.87 133 23364778 Nf3 Nb5 Kg1 Na7 Ng5 Nb5 Qe3 Bd7 Qd3 Be8 Qd2 Bc6 Ne3 Ba8 c4 dxc4 bxc4
16/56 2:42.85 437 58091157 Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bb5 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 Nf2 Rh8 bxa5 Rb7 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 axb6 Bf1+ Kxf1 Rxh6
17/56 3:27.62 441 75107686 Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bb5 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 Nf2 Rh8 bxa5 bxa5 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Rd7 Qa8+ Rd8 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Nxf7+ Kc7 Nxh8
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12541
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Dann Corbit »

bigo wrote:[D] 2r1bq1k/2r2p1P/1p2pPp1/p2pP1N1/3P4/nPP5/R2Q2K1/2RN4 w - - 0 1


This position taken from the CCC archives gave all the programs of the day a headache to solve. I thought the newer programs would find it much easier.

Rxa3!!

Code: Select all


Analysis from C:\epd\rxa3.epd   
12/4/2007 1:27:05 PM Level: 180 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Rybkav2.3.2a.w32

1) Rxa3;                
    Searching move: Ra2xa3
    Best move (Rybkav2.3.2a.w32): Ra2xa3
    identical moves! Found in: 02:40
      5	00:01	       3.194	13.858	+0.94	Nd1b2 Be8b5
      6	00:01	       5.903	22.639	+0.16	Nd1b2 Rc7xc3 Rc1xc3 Na3b1
      6	00:01	      10.195	31.731	+0.70	Nd1e3 Na3b5 Ra2c2
      6	00:01	      14.505	36.494	+0.84	Qd2e1 Na3b5 Qe1e3
      7	00:01	      31.795	52.009	+0.66	Qd2e1 b6b5 Rc1a1 b5b4
      8	00:02	      89.040	60.744	+0.23	Qd2e1 b6b5 Qe1g3 b5b4 Kg2h3
      8	00:02	      98.435	62.568	+0.54	Nd1e3 b6b5 Rc1a1 b5b4 c3xb4
      9	00:03	     158.719	71.221	+0.50	Nd1e3 b6b5 Rc1a1 b5b4 c3xb4 Qf8xb4 Kg2f3
      9	00:03	     233.103	71.019	+0.61	Ng5f3 Be8c6 Nd1e3 Bc6b7 Ne3g4 Na3b5
     10	00:04	     324.595	72.336	+0.70	Ng5f3 Be8d7 Nd1e3 Na3b5 c3c4 Qf8b4 Nf3g5
     11	00:05	     396.184	75.030	+0.70	Ng5f3 Be8d7 Nd1e3 Na3b5 c3c4 Qf8b4 Nf3g5 Bd7e8
     12	00:28	     748.522	76.047	+0.87	Ng5f3 Be8c6 Nd1b2 a5a4 b3xa4 Rc8a8 Nf3g5 Bc6xa4 Nb2xa4 Ra8xa4 Qd2d3
     13	00:28	   1.037.227	74.445	+0.88	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Qd2e3 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Rc6c7 Kg2g3 Nb5a3 Kg3g4 Na3b5
     14	00:28	   1.413.801	71.655	+0.90	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Kg2g3 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Rc8c7 Kg3g4 Rc7c8 Kg4f3 Be8d7 Qd2e3
     15	00:28	   1.697.221	71.526	+0.89	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Kg2g3 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Rc8c7 Kg3g4 Rc7c8 Kg4f3 Be8d7 Qd2e3 Bd7e8 Kf3g3 Rc6c7
     16	00:35	   2.420.395	71.514	+0.89	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Kg2g3 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Rc8c7 Kg3g4 Rc7c8 Kg4f3 Be8d7 Qd2e3 Bd7e8 Kf3g3 Rc6c7
     17	01:05	   4.511.714	71.366	+0.89	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Kg2g3 Rc7c6 Qd2e3 Rc6c7 Kg3g4 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Rc8c7 Kg4f3 Rc7c8 Kf3g3 Rc6c7
     18	01:39	   6.690.240	69.561	+0.89	Ng5f3 Na3b5 Kg2g3 Rc7c6 Qd2e3 Rc6c7 Kg3g4 Rc7c6 Nf3g5 Be8d7 Qe3d3 Rc6c7 Qd3d2 Bd7e8
     18	02:40	  10.068.905	64.680	+3.08	Ra2xa3 Qf8xa3 b3b4 a5xb4 Ng5f3 b4xc3 Qd2h6
   12/4/2007 1:30:10 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:03:01, Rated time: 02:40

1 of 1 matching moves
12/4/2007 1:30:10 PM, Total time: 12:03:05 AM
Rated time: 02:40 = 160 Seconds
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Tord Romstad
Posts: 1808
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Tord Romstad »

Glaurung 071204 does fairly well in this position, on a fast computer (2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo, 128 MB hash):

Code: Select all

 2     +0.94   00:00      118 Ne3 Bb5 
 3     +0.80   00:00      332 Ne3 Bb5 Kg1 
 4     +0.80   00:00     1413 Ne3 Bb5 Ng4 Rd8 
 4     +1.10   00:00     1599 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rb7 
 5     +1.00   00:00     2544 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rc6 Qd3 
 6     +1.18   00:00     4732 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rc6 Qd3 R6c7 
 7     -0.51   00:00    13105 Nb2 Rxc3 Rxc3 Nb1 Rxc8 Nxd2 Ra3 
 7     +0.86   00:00    22044 Ne3 Nb5 c4 dxc4 bxc4 Qh6 Ng4 Bc6+ d5 
 8     +0.63   00:00    48521 Ne3 b5 Raa1 b4 cxb4 axb4 Rxc7 Rxc7 Kf2 Bb5 
 8     +0.88   00:00   108160 Raa1 Bc6 Kg1 Be8 Ne3 Bb5 Ng4 Rd8 
 9     +0.78   00:00   152715 Raa1 b5 Nf2 b4 cxb4 Nc2 bxa5 Nxa1 Rxa1 
10     +0.92   00:00   252389 Raa1 a4 Qb2 Qh6 Nf3 Nb5 bxa4 Na7 Nf2 Kxh7 Qxb6 
10     +1.04   00:00   277981 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 bxa4 Bxa4 Qh2 Bxd1 Rxd1 
                              Rxc3 
11     +1.02   00:00   315633 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 Qh2 axb3 Rb2 Nc4 Rxb3 
12     +1.22   00:00   476644 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 a3 Nf2 Rac7 
13     +1.16   00:00   681166 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bb5 Nf2 Ne3 Kh1 
14     +0.98   00:00    1762k Nh3 Bd7 Ng5 Be8 Raa1 b5 Kg3 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bc6 Nf2 
                              a3 
15     +1.29   00:02    6733k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bb5 Qh3 a3 Nf2 
                              Bc6 Nd3 
16     +1.31   00:03    8699k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Nb5 Ng5 Be8 Qe3 Ra8 Nb2 Rac8 Na4 Rb7 
                              Rca1 Rbc7 Qh3 Nxc3 Nxb6 Nxa2 Nxc8 Rxc8 Rxa2 
17     +1.27   00:04   12390k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Bb7 Ng5 b5 Qd3 b4 Rh2 bxc3 Rxc3 Rc6 
                              Rxc6 Rxc6 Ne3 Ba6 Qd2 Nb5 Qb2 
17     +3.20   00:10   30275k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 bxa5 Nf2 
                              Rh8 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Kd8 
18     +3.06   00:11   34198k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 bxa5 Nf2 
                              Rh8 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Rc8 Qa6 
19     +5.06   00:38  116309k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 b5 a6 
                              Rh8 Ne3 Kg8 Qa3 Ra7 Ng5 Rh4 Kf3 
20     +6.06   01:15  232789k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bb5 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 Ne3 Rh8 bxa5 
                              bxa5 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Rd7 Nxf7 Kxf7 
                              Ng5+ Ke8 Qxb5 
21     +6.10   03:37  667510k Rxa3 a4 Rca1 axb3 Rxb3 b5 Rab1 Ra8 Kg3 Rca7 Qh2 
                              Ra2 Qh3 Bc6 Ne3 R8a7 Qh4 Re2 Kf4 Qb8 Qh6 Rf2+ Kg4 
22     +6.18   04:22  811480k Rxa3 a4 Rca1 axb3 Rxb3 b5 Kg3 Rc4 Rab1 Ra4 Qh2 
                              Rc7 Ne3 Bc6 Kf4 Rca7 R3b2 Rc7 Qh1 Ra3 Rb3 Rxb3 
                              Rxb3 Ra7 
23     +6.25   09:35    1785M Rxa3 Bb5 Rca1 Ra8 Qe3 Raa7 Kg1 Ra6 Nb2 Rc8 R3a2 
                              Rc7 Na4 Ra8 Qh3 Rac8 Rc2 Bxa4 Rxa4 b5 Rxa5 b4 c4 
                              dxc4 
24     +6.22   12:20    2303M Rxa3 Bb5 Rca1 Ra8 Qe3 Raa7 Kg1 Ra6 Nb2 Rc8 R3a2 
                              Rc7 Na4 Ra8 Qh3 Rac8 Rc2 Bxa4 Rxa4 b5 Rxa5 b4 c4 
                              dxc4 bxc4 Rxc4 Ra7
Tord
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User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   

Re: Still Too Hard for Computers? Position from 2004

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Tord Romstad wrote:Glaurung 071204 does fairly well in this position, on a fast computer (2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo, 128 MB hash):

Code: Select all

 2     +0.94   00:00      118 Ne3 Bb5 
 3     +0.80   00:00      332 Ne3 Bb5 Kg1 
 4     +0.80   00:00     1413 Ne3 Bb5 Ng4 Rd8 
 4     +1.10   00:00     1599 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rb7 
 5     +1.00   00:00     2544 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rc6 Qd3 
 6     +1.18   00:00     4732 Nb2 Nb5 Na4 Rc6 Qd3 R6c7 
 7     -0.51   00:00    13105 Nb2 Rxc3 Rxc3 Nb1 Rxc8 Nxd2 Ra3 
 7     +0.86   00:00    22044 Ne3 Nb5 c4 dxc4 bxc4 Qh6 Ng4 Bc6+ d5 
 8     +0.63   00:00    48521 Ne3 b5 Raa1 b4 cxb4 axb4 Rxc7 Rxc7 Kf2 Bb5 
 8     +0.88   00:00   108160 Raa1 Bc6 Kg1 Be8 Ne3 Bb5 Ng4 Rd8 
 9     +0.78   00:00   152715 Raa1 b5 Nf2 b4 cxb4 Nc2 bxa5 Nxa1 Rxa1 
10     +0.92   00:00   252389 Raa1 a4 Qb2 Qh6 Nf3 Nb5 bxa4 Na7 Nf2 Kxh7 Qxb6 
10     +1.04   00:00   277981 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 bxa4 Bxa4 Qh2 Bxd1 Rxd1 
                              Rxc3 
11     +1.02   00:00   315633 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 Qh2 axb3 Rb2 Nc4 Rxb3 
12     +1.22   00:00   476644 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 a3 Nf2 Rac7 
13     +1.16   00:00   681166 Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bb5 Nf2 Ne3 Kh1 
14     +0.98   00:00    1762k Nh3 Bd7 Ng5 Be8 Raa1 b5 Kg3 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bc6 Nf2 
                              a3 
15     +1.29   00:02    6733k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Ra7 Ng5 a4 b4 Nc4 Qh2 Bb5 Qh3 a3 Nf2 
                              Bc6 Nd3 
16     +1.31   00:03    8699k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Nb5 Ng5 Be8 Qe3 Ra8 Nb2 Rac8 Na4 Rb7 
                              Rca1 Rbc7 Qh3 Nxc3 Nxb6 Nxa2 Nxc8 Rxc8 Rxa2 
17     +1.27   00:04   12390k Nh3 Bc6 Kg1 Bb7 Ng5 b5 Qd3 b4 Rh2 bxc3 Rxc3 Rc6 
                              Rxc6 Rxc6 Ne3 Ba6 Qd2 Nb5 Qb2 
17     +3.20   00:10   30275k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 bxa5 Nf2 
                              Rh8 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Kd8 
18     +3.06   00:11   34198k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 bxa5 Nf2 
                              Rh8 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Rc8 Qa6 
19     +5.06   00:38  116309k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bc6 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 bxa5 b5 a6 
                              Rh8 Ne3 Kg8 Qa3 Ra7 Ng5 Rh4 Kf3 
20     +6.06   01:15  232789k Rxa3 Qxa3 b4 Bb5 Nf3 Qxc1 Qxc1 Kxh7 Ne3 Rh8 bxa5 
                              bxa5 Ng4 Kg8 Nh6+ Kf8 Qa3+ Ke8 Qxa5 Rd7 Nxf7 Kxf7 
                              Ng5+ Ke8 Qxb5 
21     +6.10   03:37  667510k Rxa3 a4 Rca1 axb3 Rxb3 b5 Rab1 Ra8 Kg3 Rca7 Qh2 
                              Ra2 Qh3 Bc6 Ne3 R8a7 Qh4 Re2 Kf4 Qb8 Qh6 Rf2+ Kg4 
22     +6.18   04:22  811480k Rxa3 a4 Rca1 axb3 Rxb3 b5 Kg3 Rc4 Rab1 Ra4 Qh2 
                              Rc7 Ne3 Bc6 Kf4 Rca7 R3b2 Rc7 Qh1 Ra3 Rb3 Rxb3 
                              Rxb3 Ra7 
23     +6.25   09:35    1785M Rxa3 Bb5 Rca1 Ra8 Qe3 Raa7 Kg1 Ra6 Nb2 Rc8 R3a2 
                              Rc7 Na4 Ra8 Qh3 Rac8 Rc2 Bxa4 Rxa4 b5 Rxa5 b4 c4 
                              dxc4 
24     +6.22   12:20    2303M Rxa3 Bb5 Rca1 Ra8 Qe3 Raa7 Kg1 Ra6 Nb2 Rc8 R3a2 
                              Rc7 Na4 Ra8 Qh3 Rac8 Rc2 Bxa4 Rxa4 b5 Rxa5 b4 c4 
                              dxc4 bxc4 Rxc4 Ra7
Tord
That looks really very interesting Tord!

Have you maybe made some changes to the evaluation function in this Glaurung 120407 version? Because it is two plies faster here on your computer!

Regards, Eelco
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