World Computer Chess Championship

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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Tord
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:29 am

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Tord »

pijl wrote:First: Tord did participate in person in at least two tournaments. Once in Mainz (where I met him and found him a very enjoyable person to talk to), and once in Poland (where I did not participate).
Four tournaments, actually: Twice in Mainz, and twice in Łódź. I had great fun on all four occasions. I remember you well and found you a very enjoyable person to talk to, too. :)
Second: There are reasons not to join as well that may be more important. Both tournaments where Tord joined had favourable conditions for participants (i.e. expenses paid) and did not take more than a few days. Cost and time may be a big reason not to join in a tournament.
Speaking only for myself: Cost is not a big issue. Time is somewhat an issue, but the most important factor to me is that the dark sides of the competitive side of computer chess have become increasingly visible to me in the years since I played those OTB tournaments. I believe competition in computer chess does far more harm than good, and I no longer want to be part of it. There is a slight chance that I'll come to some WCCC or similar event in the future, but if I do, I'll intentionally use some simple toy program that has no chance of finishing near the top. I'll be there to interact with the other programmers, not to try to win.

Regarding Stockfish in particular, by the very nature of the project, it's a non-competitive program. It's designed to show that cooperation and sharing are at least as effective as competition and secrecy for driving progress in computer chess. Having it compete in a WCCC seems totally wrong to me.

This being said, I miss hanging out with chess programmers. If something like an informal rapid or blitz tournament for chess programmers (not their programs) is arranged some time, I would love to participate. Some kind of meetup or conference with no actual tournament would be fun, too.
davidlevylondon
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: London, England

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by davidlevylondon »

I mean the current (2018) TCEC tournament.
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Kotlov
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Location: Russia

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Kotlov »

Tord wrote: Regarding Stockfish in particular, by the very nature of the project, it's a non-competitive program. It's designed to show that cooperation and sharing are at least as effective* as competition and secrecy for driving progress in computer chess. Having it compete in a WCCC seems totally wrong to me.
Golden words.

______
*more effective
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Rebel
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Full name: Ed Schröder

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Rebel »

davidlevylondon wrote:I mean the current (2018) TCEC tournament.
The question remains the same and unanswered.
Henk
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Henk »

mjlef wrote:
pijl wrote:
pedrox wrote: The journalist is Leontxo Garcia, he is considered the best chess journalist in Spanish. Leontxo has the sufficient level to comment technically the games, but in addition his retransmissions are amusing because he counts numerous interesting anecdotes related to chess.
Yes, that's the one. Thx Pedro.
I posted the schedule for WCCC events on icga.org

Not it mentions "There will be an International Grandmaster present in Stockholm to comment on the games for spectators in the tournament hall and online." So it looks like WCCC will have some live commentary this year. If I find out who it will be I will post that also.
Does that mean that there will also be a livestream?
mjlef
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:08 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by mjlef »

Rebel wrote:
davidlevylondon wrote:I mean the current (2018) TCEC tournament.
The question remains the same and unanswered.
I did answer it as best as I know. If any program enters and evidence is presented that it violates ICGA tournament rules, it will be investigated and a decision made if it violates those rules. We do not have resources to investigate programs that might not even enter. It is a time consuming process, and it would not be appropriate to ban a program just on someones claims about it.
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Harvey Williamson
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Location: Whitchurch. Shropshire, UK.
Full name: Harvey Williamson

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Harvey Williamson »

Henk wrote:
Does that mean that there will also be a livestream?
There has been for several years now so I doubt this year will be any different.
Henk
Posts: 7261
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Henk »

Harvey Williamson wrote:
Henk wrote:
Does that mean that there will also be a livestream?
There has been for several years now so I doubt this year will be any different.
I mean a stream where they show room where games are played plus operators. Like a livestream about Tata Steal tournament on youtube for instance. Maybe also add interviews.
Last edited by Henk on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mcostalba
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:17 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by mcostalba »

Tord wrote: This being said, I miss hanging out with chess programmers.
Hi Tord!

nice to see your writing again! Chess programmers miss you too....stockfish devs miss you even more :-)

Looking at this discussion it seem to me like looking at a living fossil!

People talking about winners, competition, rules....I don't know.

Do you all think that in TCEC engine authors join because of they think they can win? Today there are only 3 engines that can have some possibility to win a tournament..and the winner wins with a good chunk of luck too. Nevertheless a lot of engines do participate and people have a lot of fun chatting. Focusing on who will win is really misleading and is not the reason why an on-line tournament is successful.

I see many discussions here that to me make no sense and I am not excited to read them.

I see some people is worried of current situation with their organization and are trying to figure out how to recover. But the point is exactly this one: people is aiming at recovering the past consensus and popularity...this is the big limit here: if for absurd ICGA today was popular as in the past with on-site tournaments then there would have not being this thread. They don't think "What can I do to do better then TCEC, better then anybody else", they think "What can I do to recover the old status"....this is why I am pessimistic regarding this organization: I see people looking back, I don't see people looking at the future.
Robert Pope
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Location: USA
Full name: Robert Pope

Re: World Computer Chess Championship

Post by Robert Pope »

Kotlov wrote:
Tord wrote: Regarding Stockfish in particular, by the very nature of the project, it's a non-competitive program. It's designed to show that cooperation and sharing are at least as effective* as competition and secrecy for driving progress in computer chess. Having it compete in a WCCC seems totally wrong to me.
Golden words.

______
*more effective
Just curious, is there something about the TCEC that makes competing in it less wrong than competing in a WCCC? I don't see the distinction, but maybe I'm missing something.