We are past the stage where the OS has become the virus

[towforce]

Well here's a recent Pi - link.

It uses an SOC (hence there's not much of it), and it costs £4.80.

That's worth repeating: it costs £4.80.

Oh - and you're not going to be running Windows on it!

Still think a computer should be a single device that meets all the needs of all possible users?

What a hell are you talking about???
There are ton Windows CE ports to Pi (just an example - https://archive.codeplex.com/?p=ceonpi). Unless you think Windows CE is not Windows?

I'm not an expert on Windows CE, but:

1. It hasn't been updated since 2013 (link), and has now reached the end of its life (link)

2. When Dann Corbit wrote the OP in this thread complaining about bloated operating systems, he probably didn't have Windows CE at the top of his thoughts

[Milos]

Well here's a recent Pi - link.

It uses an SOC (hence there's not much of it), and it costs £4.80.

That's worth repeating: it costs £4.80.

Oh - and you're not going to be running Windows on it!

Still think a computer should be a single device that meets all the needs of all possible users?

What a hell are you talking about???
There are ton Windows CE ports to Pi (just an example - https://archive.codeplex.com/?p=ceonpi). Unless you think Windows CE is not Windows?

I'm not an expert on Windows CE, but:

1. It hasn't been updated since 2013 (link), and has now reached the end of its life (link)

2. When Dann Corbit wrote the OP in this thread complaining about bloated operating systems, he probably didn't have Windows CE at the top of his thoughts

Sure, you are not an expert but that doesn't prevent you from writing BS .
Current is version 8 that has been initially released on 2013, but it is still fully supported (at least till October 2023) and it's following the same update strategy as Win 10 (initially released in 2015), i.e. monthly rollout updates.
What Dann wrote in OP is totally irrelevant for a discussion/point you are trying to make.
Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop and Win CE 8 is probably more similar to Win10 than is your Linux running on Pi to for example latest Ubuntu.

[towforce]

Well here's a recent Pi - link.

It uses an SOC (hence there's not much of it), and it costs £4.80.

That's worth repeating: it costs £4.80.

Oh - and you're not going to be running Windows on it!

Still think a computer should be a single device that meets all the needs of all possible users?

What a hell are you talking about???
There are ton Windows CE ports to Pi (just an example - https://archive.codeplex.com/?p=ceonpi). Unless you think Windows CE is not Windows?

I'm not an expert on Windows CE, but:

1. It hasn't been updated since 2013 (link), and has now reached the end of its life (link)

2. When Dann Corbit wrote the OP in this thread complaining about bloated operating systems, he probably didn't have Windows CE at the top of his thoughts

Sure, you are not an expert but that doesn't prevent you from writing BS .
Current is version 8 that has been initially released on 2013, but it is still fully supported (at least till October 2023) and it's following the same update strategy as Win 10 (initially released in 2015), i.e. monthly rollout updates.
What Dann wrote in OP is totally irrelevant for a discussion/point you are trying to make.
Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop and Win CE 8 is probably more similar to Win10 than is your Linux running on Pi to for example latest Ubuntu.

From the above quote:

"What Dann wrote in OP is totally irrelevant for a discussion/point you are trying to make."

Let me join the dots (see my posts in this thread for fuller explanations of these dots) of the point "I'm trying to make":

* Dann complained that the bloated OS on his computer was using so much CPU time that it was impacting on what he wanted the computer to do

* per this post - link - bloated operating systems are continuing to maintain a high share of desktop computers

* in general, the rule in software (and other markets) is that the market leader tries to be all things to all people, their software thus becomes bloated and vulnerable to attack by an alternative product which is cheaper, leaner, and "good enough"

* SOCs increasingly make powerful computers with low cost and low power consumption possible

* these new economics are likely to result in big changes to the world of personal computing

* these changes represent a threat to the entrenched position of bloated operating systems

[flok]

Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop

Yes it is.
Ok, recompiled to target the ARM processor. But apart from that: same stuff.

Even with gui. You can run e.g. the XFCE window manager smoothly both on your pi as on your laptop.
XFCE is quite common.

[Milos]

Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop

Yes it is.
Ok, recompiled to target the ARM processor. But apart from that: same stuff.

Even with gui. You can run e.g. the XFCE window manager smoothly both on your pi as on your laptop.
XFCE is quite common.

Lol ofc not. Kernel is recompiled but kernel is just a small piece of OS. Or more accurately speaking OS is so much more than Kernel+rudimentary GUI+simple FS. Some Linux ppl equalize Kernel with OS which is plain wrong.
And with Kernel it's also kind of strawman. You have a codebase for Kernel and 80% of that codebase goes into for example Ubuntu Kernel and 20% into Pi Kernel. And for you it's the same thing. Yeah right.
And don't get me started about XFCE that looks and feels like Win 3.11. Give me a break with pathetic Linux win managers. That's one of the main things that keeps ppl away from Linux. Pathetic, oversimplified or totally clobbered, clunky and ridiculously slow win managers.
They usually look and feel ugly, unfinished and second rate. And even when one tries to copy Win or Mac window manager it never comes even close.

[flok]

Lol ofc not. Kernel is recompiled but kernel is just a small piece of OS. Or more accurately speaking OS is so much more than Kernel+rudimentary GUI+simple FS. Some Linux ppl equalize Kernel with OS which is plain wrong.
And with Kernel it's also kind of strawman. You have a codebase for Kernel and 80% of that codebase goes into for example Ubuntu Kernel and 20% into Pi Kernel. And for you it's the same thing. Yeah right.

I'm aware of what you wrote about kernel versus user space software.
Also, yes; it is mostly the same. Of course there's some "glue" for initializing the pi hardware and such that you won't find on x86 and vice versa. But a driver for a usb-mouse is the same on both systems. Same for filesystem-code, for memory allocators, etc.
Please confirm that you analyzed the linux kernel source before you make any further claims about this. I did that, altough that was in the 4.x series, not the current 5.x series.

And don't get me started about XFCE that looks and feels like Win 3.11. Give me a break with pathetic Linux win managers. That's one of the main things that keeps ppl away from Linux. Pathetic, oversimplified or totally clobbered, clunky and ridiculously slow win managers.
They usually look and feel ugly, unfinished and second rate. And even when one tries to copy Win or Mac window manager it usually never comes even close.

I have a feeling that Linux upsets you, you sound emotional.
Also your comments about the Linux window managers represents your view on it, not neccessarily that of others.
I like it very much that I can choose which window manager to use. It is also trivial to select (a different) one. I don't believe I can say that for windows. It's that start-menu thing and that's about it. I know that you can tweak things a bit with e.g. add-ons but then things quickly get complicated. And you need to manually keep them up-to-date.

[Milos]

But a driver for a usb-mouse is the same on both systems.

Yeah right, USB/mouse driver is relevant, you couldn't have picked up the more trivial example. Take a hobbyist ARM SoC based board with PCIe slot and try running RTX card on it with Linux kernel and then we can talk about compatibility and support.

Same for filesystem-code, for memory allocators, etc.
Please confirm that you analyzed the linux kernel source before you make any further claims about this. I did that, altough that was in the 4.x series, not the current 5.x series.

All this discussion is a strawman. There is absolutely no difference between Linux and Windows in this respect (running it on Pi).
The only difference is that due to Windows being closed source you can't make any claims about its kernel so ofc in your perspective things must be different.

I have a feeling that Linux upsets you, you sound emotional.

Interesting observation coming from a guy who in bunch of comments whines about how awful Windows is without any factual reason beside his lack of knowledge of the system.

Also your comments about the Linux window managers represents your view on it, not neccessarily that of others.
I like it very much that I can choose which window manager to use. It is also trivial to select (a different) one. I don't believe I can say that for windows. It's that start-menu thing and that's about it. I know that you can tweak things a bit with e.g. add-ons but then things quickly get complicated. And you need to manually keep them up-to-date.

Exactly the same thing, the way how you feel about Linux window managers doesn't represent the opinion of others particularly the ppl that tried the Linux for the first time.
For me Linux win managers are so "great" that I exclusively use terminal. And that's probably 60% of the time I spend working on a computer.

[flok]

But a driver for a usb-mouse is the same on both systems.

Yeah right, USB/mouse driver is relevant, you couldn't have picked up the more trivial example. Take a hobbyist ARM SoC based board with PCIe slot and try running RTX card on it with Linux kernel and then we can talk about compatibility and support.

Your statement was "Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop".
Of course there differences, but your statement makes it look like it is windows 3.11 versus windows 10 - I wanted to say "windows ce" but I don't know how different that is underneath from regular windows.

I have a feeling that Linux upsets you, you sound emotional.

Interesting observation coming from a guy who in bunch of comments whines about how awful Windows is without any factual reason beside his lack of knowledge of the system.

I don't believe that is true. I've told you about my work-experience with windows.
I'm going to ignore any comments from you that include offensive wording and statements that are untrue (like things I explained earlier).

I like it very much that I can choose which window manager to use. It is also trivial to select (a different) one. I don't believe I can say that for windows. It's that start-menu thing and that's about it. I know that you can tweak things a bit with e.g. add-ons but then things quickly get complicated. And you need to manually keep them up-to-date.

Exactly the same thing, the way how you feel about Linux window managers doesn't represent the opinion of others particularly the ppl that tried the Linux for the first time.
For me Linux win managers are so "great" that I exclusively use terminal. And that's probably 60% of the time I spend working on a computer.

You're missing my point: I tried to explain that I see it as an advantage that you can switch between window managers on Linux. I also explained that that is problematic on windows.

[Ras]

But then again switching to Linux from Windows also requires an effort for an average Joe, despite your experiences. Sure it is easier now than ever, but still not painless for most.

Sure it's an effort. Choosing a Linux distro (googling for "beginner Linux"), making a bootable USB stick under Windows (requires third party software), figuring out how to make a computer boot from the USB stick - at that point, 90% of the users are already out. That's something people don't do because they always let someone else install the OS - i.e. the computer manufacturer. So having someone to install Linux for them just puts Linux on a par in terms of outsourced effort.

Linux running on Pi is certainly not the same Linux running on your desktop

The driver layer isn't - but with that argument, you could also argue that Win 10 on ARM isn't a real Win 10. That doesn't add up.

And don't get me started about XFCE that looks and feels like Win 3.11.

That's the selling point of XFCE.

Give me a break with pathetic Linux win managers. That's one of the main things that keeps ppl away from Linux. Pathetic, oversimplified or totally clobbered, clunky and ridiculously slow win managers.

I don't like XFCE because it's too oldschool for me. Gnome is not configurable and has a bad track record of breaking extensions for nothing. The problem with Gnome is that they try to ape Apple without understanding Apple - removing options may increase usability only if the underlying workflow design supports that. KDE is highly configurable, but the downside is that they don't care much about the OOTB experience (e.g. awful start menu) and dump that on the user. Good choice for tinkerers and power users though.

I like Cinnamon because it strikes a good ground, is nice OOTB without anything weird, and it isn't slow unless there is a compatibility problem and things work in software rendering, i.e. without GPU support. But even with my iGPU (at about GT 1030 level), it's fine.

The only time I did see Cinnamon not being quite snappy was on that Core2Duo from 2009 or so, but that's because the CPU would count as overclocked potato these days, the GPU was some mobo integrated onboard stuff, and things ran from HDD. I have an Intel Atom N450 netbook from the same era, with Intel GMA 3150 graphics and HDD, and while it's no fun with Cinnamon, it sucks even more under Win 7.

[towforce]

My chess analysis was running slow. So I looked at what processes in memory were doing.
There was this thing: Compattelrunner.Exe
It was using 17% of my compute power, and my chess task which should be at 95% was struggling.
Apparently, it is MS Windows spy process that you cannot turn off.
So I found an article:
https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/wha ... -disabled/
that explains how to reduce its resources.
Unfortunately, it is already set at the minimum.
So here is this evil thing, and I can't do anything about it.
At least with a virus, there is usually some process for removal.

Something to try: increase the priority of your program, and reduce the priority of the bloatware.

* start Windows Task Manager (e.g. can select it by right clicking on the taskbar)

* right click your task

* select "Go To Process"

* right click the process and increase the priority

* right click the bloatware and reduce its priority

More information - link.