We are past the stage where the OS has become the virus

[Modern Times]

The operating system is not the most important piece of software: the applications are. Most users don't buy a computer to run an operating system, they buy it to run applications. Then they choose the operating system that runs most of those applications. In my case, I was contemplating to move over to Debian Linux; I've tried it many times in the past, and always returned to Windows. Not because of Debian or Linux being crap or bothersome, but because of the software I want or need to run.

Quite correct. I've dabbled in Linux for probably 15 years on an off and always go back to Windows because that is where the apps are that I want to use, and it is just easier. You can find Linux alternatives in some cases but definitely not always, and I found the investment in time huge and just not worth the hassle. However I have more time on my hands these days with working remotely and no commuting to the office (although that won't last much longer) so I'm going to spend some time with Garuda Linux out of curiosity.

[Ras]

So your answer would be to reduce productivity and annoy your employees just because you think you know better what is good for them???

Of course. Strategic decisions such as breaking out of a vendor lock-in and also getting rid of a spyware OS (think GDPR) is a lot more important for government entities. If you base strategic decisions on the convenience of the day, you can't make any strategic decisions at all. Also, the question isn't what's nicest for the government clerks. That's irrelevant because they don't do their job out of joy - they are paid to do it.

Thank good God you don't have some administrative executive position...

I have yet to hear of a company where the CTO/CIO would base long-term decisions on employee votes.

[flok]

The operating system is not the most important piece of software: the applications are. Most users don't buy a computer to run an operating system, they buy it to run applications. Then they choose the operating system that runs most of those applications. In my case, I was contemplating to move over to Debian Linux; I've tried it many times in the past, and always returned to Windows. Not because of Debian or Linux being crap or bothersome, but because of the software I want or need to run.

Quite correct. I've dabbled in Linux for probably 15 years on an off and always go back to Windows because that is where the apps are that I want to use, and it is just easier. You can find Linux alternatives in some cases but definitely not always, and I found the investment in time huge and just not worth the hassle. However I have more time on my hands these days with working remotely and no commuting to the office (although that won't last much longer) so I'm going to spend some time with Garuda Linux out of curiosity.

I'm confused by this thread. Are you guys on a different planet? Are you talking about an other operating system that coincidentally has the same name as the Linux operating system I use? There's literally nothing I need microsoft windows nor macos x for. And that hassle of installing and such? Included with the Linux I run, there's a gui that allows to pick any Linux program and "next next finish" it gets hassle free installed.

[lucasart]

My chess analysis was running slow. So I looked at what processes in memory were doing.
There was this thing: Compattelrunner.Exe
It was using 17% of my compute power, and my chess task which should be at 95% was struggling.
Apparently, it is MS Windows spy process that you cannot turn off.
So I found an article:
https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/wha ... -disabled/
that explains how to reduce its resources.
Unfortunately, it is already set at the minimum.
So here is this evil thing, and I can't do anything about it.
At least with a virus, there is usually some process for removal.

You get what you deserve for using Windows

[Guenther]

As a friend of mine often says: "this discussion has no winners, only tears and broken friendships" (originally in Dutch, it may be lost in translation here).
I think it applies to this discussion.

Folkert, you should change your signature, because the given website doesn't host your chess programs anymore.

www.vanheusden.com: Micah / Embla / PuppetMaster / DeepBrutePos / Pos / Feeks

[towforce]

I'm confused by this thread. Are you guys on a different planet? Are you talking about an other operating system that coincidentally has the same name as the Linux operating system I use? There's literally nothing I need microsoft windows nor macos x for. And that hassle of installing and such? Included with the Linux I run, there's a gui that allows to pick any Linux program and "next next finish" it gets hassle free installed.

This is the core of the issue: I'd like to move the computer I'm using right now to an OS like Linux Mint - but I hear horror stories of people having to spend a lot of time to fix issues and make things work, and I don't want to find myself in that place.

[flok]

I'm confused by this thread. Are you guys on a different planet? Are you talking about an other operating system that coincidentally has the same name as the Linux operating system I use? There's literally nothing I need microsoft windows nor macos x for. And that hassle of installing and such? Included with the Linux I run, there's a gui that allows to pick any Linux program and "next next finish" it gets hassle free installed.

This is the core of the issue: I'd like to move the computer I'm using right now to an OS like Linux Mint - but I hear horror stories of people having to spend a lot of time to fix issues and make things work, and I don't want to find myself in that place.

Also something I cannot relate to.

I just pop in that ubuntu usb stick (could've been fedora as well, whatever (I have fedora on my company laptop)), wait for a bit and everything is setup!
No single configuration file was editted. No fixes applied anywhere. All hardware working out of the box.
This is not unique to me. I've got multiple friends that don't give a shit about computers, they just want it to work. What have they been doing since I know them? (since somewhere in 2005!) Pop in the distro-cd (back then it was a cd), wait a bit and just do whatever they want.

Now if I were someone who's only doing facebook-browsing and so on, then the bar would not be very high.
But that's not the case: I write all kinds of low- and highlevel software, I mess around with electronics connected to my computers and so on.

Really, recompiling your os kernel to get some hardware support for something is of a distant past. Of course you can still do so if you like.
Oh and yes, if you decide to pick some special file system or partition setup or whatever you might enter a more difficult path (need to click a bit more and also know what you're doing). But I find it hard to believe that that would be different on windows if I see messages about processes that need to be manually blocked and terminated and registry settings and what not.

[mvanthoor]

This is the core of the issue: I'd like to move the computer I'm using right now to an OS like Linux Mint - but I hear horror stories of people having to spend a lot of time to fix issues and make things work, and I don't want to find myself in that place.

It's not Linux that is the problem nowadays. It's the fact that there are applications that people either need or want to use that don't run on Linux. Some examples have been mentioned in his thread:

MSOffice
Photoshop
LightRoom
CaptureOne
ChessBase
Fritz
Eizo ColorNavigator
Lots of audio / video production software
Most games (even though some work with Wine, but experiences vary)
Some hardware (hardware works, but the software that comes with it is only for Windows / Mac, so you can't fully use the device in Linux)
E-books... even though Calibre works on Linux, all other software needed (ADE, Kindle4PC, Kobo Reader, etc, etc) doesn't. Getting e-books into Calibre, especially if you buy them, is a huge hassle.

There are some people who are so principled to just throw everything that doesn't work with Linux aside, but that doesn't alsways work. Sometimes you either NEED some of the functionality of commercial software or hardware for whatever reason, and if that is the case, Linux automatically is excluded. In the real world, you select applications you need or want to use, and then select the operating system to run them on.

If you need a single Mac application, you _must_ have a Mac, possibly/probably with a Windows VM (or bootcamp) installed.
If you don't need Mac-only apps, or you don't want to use VM's or dualboots, you're basically stuck with Windows: people can try to deny it, but in the end, Windows is the operating system that runs almost everything, except Mac-only applications, but if those applications are not made by Apple, there's likely a Windows version available.

[Ras]

This is the core of the issue: I'd like to move the computer I'm using right now to an OS like Linux Mint

Solid choice if you want an LTS distro and a conventional desktop with no weird "revolutionary desktop experience". I've installed Mint 20.1 Cinnamon on several computers, also for non-IT end users. If you are running newer hardware, take the "Edge" version ISO (has nothing to do with Microsoft's browser).

but I hear horror stories of people having to spend a lot of time to fix issues and make things work, and I don't want to find myself in that place.

You can just make a bootable USB stick with the ISO and boot from there, then take a look whether it works on your hardware and whether you may like it. Nothing will be changed on your disk unless you actually click the "install" icon and go through a series of dialogues. If all you want to do right now is taking a look, you don't even need to think about how to do a data migration.

Otherwise, you can back up your data files to another disk, and also use e.g. Clonezilla or Foxclone to back up a complete disk image of your computer. These are USB booted Linux, and they can make backups also of Windows installations. The kicker with that one: if you decide after the full Mint installation that it isn't your cup of tea after all, you can clone back the disk image and have everything right as it was. Btw., this kind of backup also works nicely in case of disk failure, or if Windows just fries itself.

[Modern Times]

It's not Linux that is the problem nowadays. It's the fact that there are applications that people either need or want to use that don't run on Linux. Some examples have been mentioned in his thread:

MSOffice
Photoshop
LightRoom
CaptureOne
ChessBase
Fritz
Eizo ColorNavigator
Lots of audio / video production software
Most games (even though some work with Wine, but experiences vary)
Some hardware (hardware works, but the software that comes with it is only for Windows / Mac, so you can't fully use the device in Linux)
E-books... even though Calibre works on Linux, all other software needed (ADE, Kindle4PC, Kobo Reader, etc, etc) doesn't. Getting e-books into Calibre, especially if you buy them, is a huge hassle.

Not to mention the vast majority of chess engines where the author only provides Windows exes ?

If someone pops up and says - if it is open source, compile it yourself - 99% of users don't know how to do that, and don't want to either.

Run under WINE ? Well I'd rather run it natively under Windows.