Maybe it's difficult for engines

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Hobacle »

peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 am
Hobacle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm [d]N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1
White to win.
But only once in the year.
:)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Maybe"]
[Black "April, 1."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "16"]

1. Qxd8 Kg8 2. Nc7 (2. Nb6 Ne4+ 3. Kc4 Rxf1 4. Nd7 Nd6+ 5. Kb3 Rb1+ 6. Ka4 Ra1+
7. Kb4 Rb1+ 8. Ka4 {[%eval 0,22]} Ra1+ 9. Kb3 Rb1+ 10. Ka4 {3f}) 2... Rxf1 3.
Nd5 Rc1+ (3... Ne4+ $2 4. Kb6 Rb1+ 5. Kc7 Rb7+ 6. Kxb7 Nc5+ 7. Kc6 Nxe6 8. Qc8
f1=Q 9. Qxe6+ Kh8 10. Qf7 Qc4+ 11. Kb7 Qb5+ 12. Bb6 Qd7+ 13. Bc7 Qb5+ 14. Nb6
Qb3 15. Qxb3 $18) 4. Kb4 Rb1+ 5. Ka4 Ra1+ 6. Kb4 Rb1+ 7. Ka4 Ra1+ 8. Kb4 Rb1+ {
3f} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
White is really winning here by 1. Qxa1 unless I'm wrong.
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peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by peter »

Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:43 am
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 am
Hobacle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm [d]N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1
White to win.
But only once in the year.
:)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Maybe"]
[Black "April, 1."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "16"]

1. Qxd8 Kg8 2. Nc7 (2. Nb6 Ne4+ 3. Kc4 Rxf1 4. Nd7 Nd6+ 5. Kb3 Rb1+ 6. Ka4 Ra1+
7. Kb4 Rb1+ 8. Ka4 {[%eval 0,22]} Ra1+ 9. Kb3 Rb1+ 10. Ka4 {3f}) 2... Rxf1 3.
Nd5 Rc1+ (3... Ne4+ $2 4. Kb6 Rb1+ 5. Kc7 Rb7+ 6. Kxb7 Nc5+ 7. Kc6 Nxe6 8. Qc8
f1=Q 9. Qxe6+ Kh8 10. Qf7 Qc4+ 11. Kb7 Qb5+ 12. Bb6 Qd7+ 13. Bc7 Qb5+ 14. Nb6
Qb3 15. Qxb3 $18) 4. Kb4 Rb1+ 5. Ka4 Ra1+ 6. Kb4 Rb1+ 7. Ka4 Ra1+ 8. Kb4 Rb1+ {
3f} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
White is really winning here by 1. Qxa1 unless I'm wrong.
After 1.Qxa1? this one Queen gets lost at once with 1...Nb3+ 2...Nxa1.
Unless you don't show a winning line, I think you're wrong regards
Peter.
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Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Hobacle »

peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:09 pm
Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:43 am
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 am
Hobacle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm [d]N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1
White to win.
But only once in the year.
:)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Maybe"]
[Black "April, 1."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "16"]

1. Qxd8 Kg8 2. Nc7 (2. Nb6 Ne4+ 3. Kc4 Rxf1 4. Nd7 Nd6+ 5. Kb3 Rb1+ 6. Ka4 Ra1+
7. Kb4 Rb1+ 8. Ka4 {[%eval 0,22]} Ra1+ 9. Kb3 Rb1+ 10. Ka4 {3f}) 2... Rxf1 3.
Nd5 Rc1+ (3... Ne4+ $2 4. Kb6 Rb1+ 5. Kc7 Rb7+ 6. Kxb7 Nc5+ 7. Kc6 Nxe6 8. Qc8
f1=Q 9. Qxe6+ Kh8 10. Qf7 Qc4+ 11. Kb7 Qb5+ 12. Bb6 Qd7+ 13. Bc7 Qb5+ 14. Nb6
Qb3 15. Qxb3 $18) 4. Kb4 Rb1+ 5. Ka4 Ra1+ 6. Kb4 Rb1+ 7. Ka4 Ra1+ 8. Kb4 Rb1+ {
3f} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
White is really winning here by 1. Qxa1 unless I'm wrong.
After 1.Qxa1? this one Queen gets lost at once with 1...Nb3+ 2...Nxa1.
Unless you don't show a winning line, I think you're wrong regards
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "27"]

1. Qxa1 $3 (1. Qxd8 $2 $11) 1... Nb3+ 2. Kc4 (2. Kb4 Nxa1 3. Kc3 $3) 2... Nxa1
3. Kc3 $3 (3. Bxd8 $2 Nc2) 3... Bxa5+ 4. Kb2 Kg8 5. Kxa1 Kh8 6. Kb2 Kg8 7.
Kb3 Kh8 8. Kc4 Kg8 9. Kc5 Kh8 10. Kd5 Kg8 11. Kc6 Kh8 12. Kd7 Kg8 13. Ke8 h5
14. Kd7 *

[/pgn]

The full version is very very long and I'm lazy.
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User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Nordlandia »

That puzzle reminds me of something of something that Ottó Bláthy could have composed.

I have to admit i thought it may have been a April Fools' joke.

Nice solution!
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peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by peter »

Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:00 pm
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:09 pm
Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:43 am
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 am
Hobacle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm [d]N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1
White to win.
But only once in the year.
:)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Maybe"]
[Black "April, 1."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "16"]

1. Qxd8 Kg8 2. Nc7 (2. Nb6 Ne4+ 3. Kc4 Rxf1 4. Nd7 Nd6+ 5. Kb3 Rb1+ 6. Ka4 Ra1+
7. Kb4 Rb1+ 8. Ka4 {[%eval 0,22]} Ra1+ 9. Kb3 Rb1+ 10. Ka4 {3f}) 2... Rxf1 3.
Nd5 Rc1+ (3... Ne4+ $2 4. Kb6 Rb1+ 5. Kc7 Rb7+ 6. Kxb7 Nc5+ 7. Kc6 Nxe6 8. Qc8
f1=Q 9. Qxe6+ Kh8 10. Qf7 Qc4+ 11. Kb7 Qb5+ 12. Bb6 Qd7+ 13. Bc7 Qb5+ 14. Nb6
Qb3 15. Qxb3 $18) 4. Kb4 Rb1+ 5. Ka4 Ra1+ 6. Kb4 Rb1+ 7. Ka4 Ra1+ 8. Kb4 Rb1+ {
3f} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
White is really winning here by 1. Qxa1 unless I'm wrong.
After 1.Qxa1? this one Queen gets lost at once with 1...Nb3+ 2...Nxa1.
Unless you don't show a winning line, I think you're wrong regards
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "27"]

1. Qxa1 $3 (1. Qxd8 $2 $11) 1... Nb3+ 2. Kc4 (2. Kb4 Nxa1 3. Kc3 $3) 2... Nxa1
3. Kc3 $3 (3. Bxd8 $2 Nc2) 3... Bxa5+ 4. Kb2 Kg8 5. Kxa1 Kh8 6. Kb2 Kg8 7.
Kb3 Kh8 8. Kc4 Kg8 9. Kc5 Kh8 10. Kd5 Kg8 11. Kc6 Kh8 12. Kd7 Kg8 13. Ke8 h5
14. Kd7 $18 *

[/pgn]

The full version is very very long and I'm lazy.
Haha, so was I :)
Didn't think I'd fall for cyclic zugzwang ever again, but maybe I was wrong. Have to work it out anyhow, didn't think it would work because of the still free third one black coloured bishop of Black's.
If it's really ok, I'll stand corrected, yet I'm still in doubt as for now regards
:)
Peter.
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12540
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Dann Corbit »

The only problem is (unless there is a very serious bug in Stockfish) that every position in that pv is drawn.

Code: Select all

N4bk1/3Kp1p1/4PpP1/b6p/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm Kh8; ce 0; pm Kh8; pv Kh8 Nc7 Bc3 Ke8 Kg8 Kd8 h4 Kd7 Be5 Nd5 Kh8 Ke8 Kg8 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bb2 Kd7 Ba3 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kh8 Kf7 h3 Ke7 Kg8 Ke8 f5 Kd8 Kf8 Kd7 f4 Kd8 f3 Kd7 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8 Kd8 Kg8 Ke8; move 14b; 
N3Kbk1/4p1p1/4PpP1/b6p/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kd7; ce 0; c3 "Kd7"; pm Kd7; pv Kd7 Kh8 Nc7 Bc3 Ke8 Kg8 Kd8 h4 Nd5 Bd2 Kd7 h3 Ke8 Ba5 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bb4+ Ke8 Bc5 e7 Kh8 Kf7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 f5 Ke7 Kh8 Kd7 Kg8; move 14a; 
N3Kbk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm f5; ce 0; c3 "h5"; pm f5; pv f5 Kd7 f4 Nc7 Bc3 Nd5 Bf6 Ke8 Bd4 Kd8 f3 Nxe7+ Kh8 Ke8 Bxe7 Kxe7 Bc3 Ke8 Bd4 e7 Bf6 Kf8 Bxe7+ Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 h5 Ke7 Kh8 Kf7 h4 Ke7 h3 Kd8 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8; move 13b; 
N4bk1/3Kp1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Ke8; ce 0; c3 "Ke8"; pm Ke8; pv Ke8 f5 Kd7 f4 Nc7 Bc3 Nd5 Bf6 Ke8 Bd4 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bc5+ Ke8 Kh8 Kd7 Bf8 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8 Kf7 f3 Ke8 h5 Kf7 h4 Ke7 h3 Kd8 Kg8 Kc7 Kh8 Kd6; move 13a; 
N4b1k/3Kp1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm Kg8; ce 0; c3 "Kg8"; pm Kg8; pv Kg8 Ke8 f5 Kd7 f4 Nc7 Bc3 Nd5 Bf6 Ke8 Bd4 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bc5+ Ke8 Kh8 Kd7 Bf8 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8; move 12b; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/2K1PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kd7; ce 0; c3 "Kd7"; pm Kd7; pv Kd7 Kg8 Ke8 f5 Kd7 f4 Nc7 Bc3 Nd5 Bf6 Ke8 Bd4 Kd8 f3 Ke8 Bc5 Kd7 Bd6 Kd8 Bc5 Ke8 Bd4 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bf6+ Ke8 Bg5 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 h5 Ke8 Kh8 Kf7 h4 Ke7 h3 Kd7 Kg8 Ke7; move 12a; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/2K1PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm Bb4; ce 0; c3 "Kh8"; pm Bb4; pv Bb4 Kd7 Bd2 Nb6 Be3 Nd5 Bd4 Kd8 Ba7 Kc7 f5 Nb6 Bxb6+ Kxb6 f4 Kc7 f3 Kc6 Kh8 Kd7 h5 Kc6 h4 Kd5 Kg8 Kc4 Kh8 Kd3 h3 Ke4 Kg8 Kd4 Kh8; move 11b; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b2K4/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kc6; ce 0; c3 "Kc6"; pm Kc6; pv Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Bd2 Nb6 Be3 Nd5 Bd4 Kd8 Ba7 Kc7 f5 Kd7 Kh8 Ke8 Kg8; move 11a; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b2K4/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm Bb4; ce 0; c3 "Kg8"; pm Bb4; pv Bb4 Kc6 h5 Nc7 f5 Kd7 Bd6 Nd5 Bc5 Kd8 f4 Ke8 Kg8 Kd7 Kh8 Kd8 f3 Kd7 Bd4 Ke8 Kg8 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Kh8 Kf7 Bc5 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8 Ke7; move 10b; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b1K5/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kb5; ce 0; c3 "Kd5"; pm Kb5; pv Kb5 Bd2 Kc6 h5 Kd7 Be3 Nc7 Bd4 Nd5 f5 Ke8 Kg8 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bf6+ Ke8 Kh8 Kf8 Bd8 Kf7 Bf6 Ke8 Bh4 Kd7 Bg5 Kd6 f4 Kd7 f3 Ke8 Bh6 Kf7 Bg5 Ke8; move 10a; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b1K5/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm f5; ce 0; c3 "Kh8"; pm f5; pv f5 Kc6 f4 Nc7 Bd2 Nd5 Be3 Kc7 Bd4 Kd7 Bf6 Ke8 Bd4 Nxe7+ Bxe7 Kxe7 Bc5+ Ke8 Kh8 Kf7 Bd6 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 Kg8 Ke8 Kh8 Kd7 f3 Ke7 Kg8 Ke8 h5 Ke7 Kh8 Kd8 h4 Ke8 h3 Kd8 Kg8 Kc7 Kh8; move 09b; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/2K5/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kc5; ce 0; c3 "Kc5"; pm Kc5; pv Kc5 f5 Kc6 f4 Nc7 Bd2 Nd5 Be3 Kc7 Bd4 Kd7 Bf6 Kd8 Bd4 Ke8 Bc5 Kd7 Bd6 Kd8 Ba3 Ke8; move 09a; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/2K5/8/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 45; bm h5; ce 0; c3 "Kg8"; pm h5; pv h5 Kb5 Bc3 Kc6 h4 Nc7 Bd4 Nd5 Kg8 Kc7 Bb2 Kd7 f5 Kd8 Bd4 Nxe7+ Bxe7+ Kxe7 Bc5+ Ke8 Bf8 e7 Bxe7 Kxe7 h3 Ke8 f4 Ke7 f3 Ke8 Kh8 Kd7 Kg8 Ke7 Kh8 Kd6 Kg8 Ke7; move 08b; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/1K6/5p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 45; bm Kc4; ce 0; c3 "Kc4"; pm Kc4; pv Kc4 h5 Kb5 Bc3 Kc6 h4 Nc7 Bd4 Kd7 f5 Nd5 h3 Kd8 Kg8 Ke8 Bc5 Kd7 Ba3 Kd8 Bc5; move 08a; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/1K6/5p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 40; bm h5; ce 0; c3 "Kh8"; pm h5; pv h5 Kc4 h4 Kb5 Bd2 Nb6 Bc3 Nd7 Bb2 Kc6 Be5 Nxe5 fxe5 Kd5 h3 Kxe5 Kh8 Kf5 Kg8; move 07b; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/1K3p1p/5Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kb3; ce 0; c3 "Kb3"; pm Kb3; pv Kb3 h5 Kc4 h4 Kb5 Bd2 Nb6 Bc3 Kc6 h3 Nd7 Bb4 Kc7 Ba5+ Kb7 Bd2 Kc8 Ba5; move 07a; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/1K3p1p/5Nbr b - - acd 40; bm Bd2; ce 0; c3 "Kg8"; pm Bd2; pv Bd2 Kb3 Bc1 Kc4 Bb2 Kd5 Ba3 Kc6 f5 Nb6 f4 Kc7 Bb4 Kc8 Ba5 Nd5 Bd2 Kd8 Kg8 Kc7 Be3 Nb6 Bc1 Nd7 Kh8 Nb8 Ba3 Kd8 Bd6 Nd7 Kg8 Ke8 Bc7 Nxf8 Ba5 Nd7 Bc7 Kxe7 Ba5 Ke8 Bc7; move 06b; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/K4Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kb2; ce 0; c3 "Kb2"; pm Kb2; pv Kb2 Bd2 Kb3 Bc1 Kc4 Bb2 Kd5 Ba3 Kc6 f5 Nb6 f4 Kb5 Bd6 Nd7 Kg8 Kc6 Bb4 Kc7 Ba5+ Kc8 Kh8 Nb8 Kg8 Kd7 Bb4 Ke8 Bc3 Nd7 h5 Kd8 Bb4 Ke8; move 06a; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/5p1p/K4Nbr b - - acd 40; bm Bc3+; ce 0; c3 "Kh8"; pm Bc3+; pv Bc3+ Ka2 Be5 Kb3 f5 Kb4 h5 Kc5 h4 Kb5 Ba1 Nb6 Bd4 Kc6 f4 Kc7 Bc3 Nd7 Ba5+ Kc8 f3 Kb7 Bb4 Nb8 Ba5; move 05b; 
N4bk1/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/1K3p1p/n4Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kxa1; ce 0; c3 "Kxa1"; pm Kxa1; pv Kxa1 Bc3+ Ka2 Be5 Kb3 f5 Kc4 Bd6 Kb5 Ba3 Kb6 h5 Kc6 f4 Kc7 Bc1 Nb6 Bd2 Kc6 Ba5 Nd7 f3 Nb6 Bc3 Kd7 Bd4 Kc7 Bxb6+ Kxb6 h4 Kc6 Kh8 Kc5 Kg8; move 05a; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/8/1K3p1p/n4Nbr b - - acd 40; bm h5; ce 0; c3 "Kg8"; pm h5; pv h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd4 Kc6 f3 Nd7 Bc3 Kb6 Be1 Kc7 Ba5+ Kb7 Bd2 Nxf8 Ba5 Kc8 Kg8 Nh7 Bb4 Kd8 Ba3 Kc7 Bb4 Kc6 Bd6 Kd7 Ba3; move 04b; 
N4b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/b7/8/2K5/5p1p/n4Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kb2; ce 0; c3 "Kb2"; pm Kb2; pv Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd4 Kc6 Bxb6 Kxb6 f3 Kc7 Kg8 Kd8 Kh8; move 04a; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B7/8/2K5/5p1p/n4Nbr b - - acd 40; bm Bxa5+; ce 0; c3 "Bxa5+"; pm Bxa5+; pv Bxa5+ Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd4 Kc6 Bxb6 Kxb6 f3 Kc7 Kg8 Kd8 Kh8 Kd7 Kg8 Kc7 Kh8 Kb6 Kg8 Kc5 Kh8 Kd4 Kg8 Ke5 Kh8 Ke4 Kg8 Kf4 Kh8 Kxf3 Kg8 Ke3 Kh8; move 03b; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B7/2K5/8/5p1p/n4Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kc3; ce 0; c3 "Kc3"; pm Kc3; pv Kc3 Bxa5+ Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd2 Kc6 Ba5 Nd7 Kg8 Nb8 Bc3 Kd7 Be5 Kc8 Bxb8 Kxb8 f3 Kc7 Kh8 Kb6 Kg8; move 03a; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B7/2K5/1n6/5p1p/Q4Nbr b - - acd 40; bm Nxa1; ce 0; c3 "Nxa1"; pm Nxa1; pv Nxa1 Kc3 Bxa5+ Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd2 Kc6 Ba5 Nd7 Kg8 Nb8 Bc3 Kd7 Be5 Kc8 Bxb8 Kxb8 f3 Kc7 Kh8 Kc8 Kg8; move 02b; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/8/1n6/5p1p/Q4Nbr w - - acd 40; bm Kc4; ce 0; c3 "Kc4"; pm Kc4; pv Kc4 Nxa1 Kc3 Bxa5+ Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd2 Nd7 Kg8 Kb6 Bb4 Kc7 Ba5+ Kc8 f3 Kb7 Be1 Kc7 Ba5+; move 02a; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/8/8/3n1p1p/Q4Nbr b - - acd 40; bm Nb3+; ce 0; c3 "Nb3+"; pm Nb3+; pv Nb3+ Kb4 Nxa1 Kc3 Bxa5+ Kb2 h5 Kxa1 h4 Kb2 f5 Kb3 h3 Kc4 f4 Kb5 Bc3 Nb6 Bd2 Nd7 Kg8 Kb6 Bb4 Kc7 Ba5+ Kc8 f3 Kb7 Be1 Nb8 Kh8 Kc7 Bd2 Kd8 Bf4 Kc8 Bxb8 Kxb8 Kg8 Kc7 Kh8 Kc8 Kg8 Kb8 Kh8 Kc8; move 01b; 
N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - acd 77; bm Qxd8; ce 0; c3 "Qxa1"; pm Qxd8; pv Qxd8 Kg8 Nc7 Rxf1 Nd5 Rc1+ Kb4 Rb1+ Ka4 Ra1+ Kb4; move 01a;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by peter »

peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:13 pm
Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:00 pm
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:09 pm
Hobacle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:43 am
peter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 am
Hobacle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm [d]N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1
White to win.
But only once in the year.
:)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Maybe"]
[Black "April, 1."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "16"]

1. Qxd8 Kg8 2. Nc7 (2. Nb6 Ne4+ 3. Kc4 Rxf1 4. Nd7 Nd6+ 5. Kb3 Rb1+ 6. Ka4 Ra1+
7. Kb4 Rb1+ 8. Ka4 {[%eval 0,22]} Ra1+ 9. Kb3 Rb1+ 10. Ka4 {3f}) 2... Rxf1 3.
Nd5 Rc1+ (3... Ne4+ $2 4. Kb6 Rb1+ 5. Kc7 Rb7+ 6. Kxb7 Nc5+ 7. Kc6 Nxe6 8. Qc8
f1=Q 9. Qxe6+ Kh8 10. Qf7 Qc4+ 11. Kb7 Qb5+ 12. Bb6 Qd7+ 13. Bc7 Qb5+ 14. Nb6
Qb3 15. Qxb3 $18) 4. Kb4 Rb1+ 5. Ka4 Ra1+ 6. Kb4 Rb1+ 7. Ka4 Ra1+ 8. Kb4 Rb1+ {
3f} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
White is really winning here by 1. Qxa1 unless I'm wrong.
After 1.Qxa1? this one Queen gets lost at once with 1...Nb3+ 2...Nxa1.
Unless you don't show a winning line, I think you're wrong regards
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "N2b1b1k/4p1p1/4PpPp/B1K5/3Q4/8/3n1p1p/r4Nbr w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "27"]

1. Qxa1 $3 (1. Qxd8 $2 $11) 1... Nb3+ 2. Kc4 (2. Kb4 Nxa1 3. Kc3 $3) 2... Nxa1
3. Kc3 $3 (3. Bxd8 $2 Nc2) 3... Bxa5+ 4. Kb2 Kg8 5. Kxa1 Kh8 6. Kb2 Kg8 7.
Kb3 Kh8 8. Kc4 Kg8 9. Kc5 Kh8 10. Kd5 Kg8 11. Kc6 Kh8 12. Kd7 Kg8 13. Ke8 h5
14. Kd7 $18 *

[/pgn]

The full version is very very long and I'm lazy.
Haha, so was I :)
Didn't think I'd fall for cyclic zugzwang ever again, but maybe I was wrong. Have to work it out anyhow, didn't think it would work because of the still free third one black coloured bishop of Black's.
If it's really ok, I'll stand corrected, yet I'm still in doubt as for now regards
:)
Just had missed the point that third one free black coloured Bishop of Black's can't hold the short diagonal a5-d8, cause there's only a5 left with white Night at d7 and King at c8.
Shame on me, unless there's still some hole somewhere, that I didn't find till now.
If I won't come back, I'll simply have to shut up about April's fools
:)
Last edited by peter on Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peter.
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Paloma
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Paloma »

The End of the solution can be this:
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5b1k/2N1p1p1/2K1PpP1/8/8/7p/5p1p/5Nbr w - -"]

1. Nb5 f5 2. Nd4 f4 3. Kd7 f3 4. Nf5 Kg8 5. Ke8 Kh8 6. Nh6
gxh6 7. Kxf8 h5 8. g7+ Kh7 9. g8=Q+ Kh6 10. Qg7# *
[/pgn]
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Jouni
Posts: 3283
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Jouni »

After 14.Kd7 Crystal can't see win after 50 plies/10 giganodes. So very difficult if correct!
Jouni
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Paloma
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: Maybe it's difficult for engines

Post by Paloma »

Paloma wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:11 pm The End of the solution can be this:
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.04.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5b1k/2N1p1p1/2K1PpP1/8/8/7p/5p1p/5Nbr w - -"]

1. Nb5 f5 2. Nd4 f4 3. Kd7 f3 4. Nf5 Kg8 5. Ke8 Kh8 6. Nh6
gxh6 7. Kxf8 h5 8. g7+ Kh7 9. g8=Q+ Kh6 10. Qg7# *
[/pgn]
[d]N2b1bk1/4p1p1/4PpP1/1K5p/8/8/5p1p/5Nbr w - -
After Ka6 Bc7?, Nxc7 is mate in 13, but bishop does not have to move to c7 :cry:
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