Why I stood up for Allie is why I stand up for FF2

[dkappe]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

[gonzochess75]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

There never was any question by anyone at anytime regarding the GPL licensing of Allie as she is clearly and unambiguously GPL compatible. How could she not be when the license she uses is the GPL? The situation with FF2 is not remotely comparable or have anything to do with Allie. Once again you are using non-sequiturs. Please stop and close this stupid thread.

[dkappe]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

There never was any question by anyone at anytime regarding the GPL licensing of Allie as she is clearly and unambiguously GPL compatible. How could she not be when the license she uses is the GPL? The situation with FF2 is not remotely comparable or have anything to do with Allie. Once again you are using non-sequiturs. Please stop and close this stupid thread.

That you can make common cause with people who heaped abuse on you is to your credit, not theirs.

[Guenther]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

Yawn... you permanently want to rewrite history, if enough time has gone by. What is the name for this kind of people?
Everyone can do a search here about how much people called/screamed Allie would be a 'clone' and then will be surprised.
Surprised, because he probably won't find a single post and also not from your so called 'usual suspects'.
You defended Allie, lol that's hilarious.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ne#p792808

First an attempt in defending DeusX now an attempt in defending FF2 the second time by abusing Allie for it.
Andrew got it right in his answer.

This is really the last time I opened your ugly account - now it will be ignored forever.

[Terje]

The FF1/2 situation is nothing like Allie. Stop spamming garbage please.

[dkappe]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

Yawn... you permanently want to rewrite history, if enough time has gone by. What is the name for this kind of people?
Everyone can do a search here about how much people called/screamed Allie would be a 'clone' and then will be surprised.
Surprised, because he probably won't find a single post and also not from your so called 'usual suspects'.
You defended Allie, lol that's hilarious.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ne#p792808

First an attempt in defending DeusX now an attempt in defending FF2 the second time by abusing Allie for it.
Andrew got it right in his answer.

This is really the last time I opened your ugly account - now it will be ignored forever.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ne#p812714

[Guenther]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

Yawn... you permanently want to rewrite history, if enough time has gone by. What is the name for this kind of people?
Everyone can do a search here about how much people called/screamed Allie would be a 'clone' and then will be surprised.
Surprised, because he probably won't find a single post and also not from your so called 'usual suspects'.
You defended Allie, lol that's hilarious.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ne#p792808

First an attempt in defending DeusX now an attempt in defending FF2 the second time by abusing Allie for it.
Andrew got it right in his answer.

This is really the last time I opened your ugly account - now it will be ignored forever.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ne#p812714

And what? You mean you defended Allie against yourself? LOL
You make zero sense anymore. No one screamed 'clone'. Your post again verified it.
Bye

[dkappe]

IMO, the _only_ engine in a grey area is Allie.

Allie+Stein is a clone according to TCEC rules (both Allie is not unique relative to Lc0, and Stein is not unique comparing to Leela’s weights...

When there is a question whether engine X borrowed something essential from Y, one should ask opinion from Y’s authors in any case. It’s weird that this didn’t happen (neither with DeusX nor with Allie case)!

[Madeleine Birchfield]

It was not so long ago that the usual suspects were screaming “clone” at the author of Allie. Never mind that the vast majority of Allie was original and distinctive from Lc0, or that the GPU/CUDA Portion that it shared in common with Lc0 was a) very small, b) not chess specific, c) blessed for use by the author of that code. I stood up for Allie and defended it against these same bullies and GPL misinterpreters.

Why? Computer Chess should never become a cool kids club where only those who are favored are permitted to play.

Allie is nothing like Fat Fritz 2. The closest CPU only engines to Allie are the likes of Igel and Nemorino. Everything in Allie except for Ankan's neural network backends and the network training were reimplemented by Adam Treat from scratch, just like how everything except for nodchip's NNUE backend and the network training was reimplemented by the Igel and Nemorino authors from scratch.

My argument re Allie, TCEC, and cloning has always been about the new NNUE guidelines by TCEC resulting in double standards between engines using the Ankan NN backend and engines using the NNUE backend. If Allie was allowed to use Stein, which used Leela data in training, then Igel should be allowed to use Night Nurse, which used Bad Gyal data in training, and if Igel wasn't allowed to use Night Nurse, then Allie shouldn't be able to use Stein. I was perfectly fine with Allie being in TCEC before the NNUE guidelines were in place.

Fat Fritz 2 on the other hand is a blatant Stockfish clone, Albert Silver having taken 99.9% of Stockfish's existing codebase and trying to pass it off as his own work. You might as well defend the actions of Robert Houdart and Norman Schmidt for trying to pass off Stockfish 8 as their own work.

[Ckappe]

I am not sure "standing up" is what most people in the open-source community think about your defense of FF2 with stretched, exaggerated, false equivalence with Allie that has been accepted by pretty much everyone in the open-source and chess-engine community.