Fat Fritz 2

[gladius]

Latest from the blitz list.

I have a lot of respect for CCRL, but, IMO, it is a bad choice to include Fat Fritz 2 on the list. It is trivial to release Stockfish derivatives that would flood rating lists and make them totally meaningless. Very disappointing to see. I understand there is some nuance about deciding what engines to include, and which to not include on a list - but it's totally clear this is a very minor delta to Stockfish dev.

[h1a8]

Latest from the blitz list.

I have a lot of respect for CCRL, but, IMO, it is a bad choice to include Fat Fritz 2 on the list. It is trivial to release Stockfish derivatives that would flood rating lists and make them totally meaningless. Very disappointing to see. I understand there is some nuance about deciding what engines to include, and which to not include on a list - but it's totally clear this is a very minor delta to Stockfish dev.

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

[twobeer]

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

WHo disagrees apart from those persons with commercial intrest in this scam from CB??

It should at least clearly be called Stockfish and not Fat Frits on the list.. the engine is Stockfish and NOTHING else.. Just a specifik network..

[dkappe]

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

WHo disagrees apart from those persons with commercial intrest in this scam from CB??

It should at least clearly be called Stockfish and not Fat Frits on the list.. the engine is Stockfish and NOTHING else.. Just a specifik network..

For those that say that FF2 is “just” a net and doesn’t add anything, can you provide some chess examples of where that’s true?

[Graham Banks]

For those interested, I'm running a Fat Fritz 2 64-bit 8CPU v Stockfish 2021-02-11 64-bit 8CPU match at 2 hours with 30 second increments.

Details are in the tournament sub-forum.

[gaard]

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

WHo disagrees apart from those persons with commercial intrest in this scam from CB??

It should at least clearly be called Stockfish and not Fat Frits on the list.. the engine is Stockfish and NOTHING else.. Just a specifik network..

For those that say that FF2 is “just” a net and doesn’t add anything, can you provide some chess examples of where that’s true?

An example would consist of analysis of SF-dev (with its default net) juxtaposed with SF-dev (with the FF2 net). Can you provide some chess examples where it's not true?

[dkappe]

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

WHo disagrees apart from those persons with commercial intrest in this scam from CB??

It should at least clearly be called Stockfish and not Fat Frits on the list.. the engine is Stockfish and NOTHING else.. Just a specifik network..

For those that say that FF2 is “just” a net and doesn’t add anything, can you provide some chess examples of where that’s true?

An example would consist of analysis of SF-dev (with its default net) juxtaposed with SF-dev (with the FF2 net). Can you provide some chess examples where it's not true?

Sorry. I don’t have a copy of FF2 so can’t speak to the chess side of things. It would be foolish of me to make claims in that regard without first hand evidence.

[Madeleine Birchfield]

I have a lot of respect for CCRL, but, IMO, it is a bad choice to include Fat Fritz 2 on the list. It is trivial to release Stockfish derivatives that would flood rating lists and make them totally meaningless. Very disappointing to see. I understand there is some nuance about deciding what engines to include, and which to not include on a list - but it's totally clear this is a very minor delta to Stockfish dev.

This is coming from the same ratings list that has the stockfish clones Houdini 6 and Fire 7.1 listed as separate from Stockfish, and regular Fat Fritz listed separate from Leela, so listing Fat Fritz 2 as separate from Stockfish is simply on par to their previous behaviour.

[gaard]

If it's clear then why do others disagree? Fair question.

WHo disagrees apart from those persons with commercial intrest in this scam from CB??

It should at least clearly be called Stockfish and not Fat Frits on the list.. the engine is Stockfish and NOTHING else.. Just a specifik network..

For those that say that FF2 is “just” a net and doesn’t add anything, can you provide some chess examples of where that’s true?

An example would consist of analysis of SF-dev (with its default net) juxtaposed with SF-dev (with the FF2 net). Can you provide some chess examples where it's not true?

Sorry. I don’t have a copy of FF2 so can’t speak to the chess side of things. It would be foolish of me to make claims in that regard without first hand evidence.

You don't have a copy of the net either?

[dkappe]

You don't have a copy of the net either?

I don’t do Windows and most of the chessbase software is Windows based. (I may have an ancient copy of chessbase for Windows NT somewhere.) I’ve restricted my comments to the GPL as I can’t speak to how FF2 plays or whether it would be worth X $ to someone. I somehow assumed that you had a copy, given your confident statements about how strong or weak FF2 was.