Stockfish LC0: 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 in TCEC

[Jouni]

Yes 5 wins for SF after last Lc0 win . Probably SF classical is enough to beat Lc0 . No sense to invest for expensive GPU card.

[royb]

Can Leela run on a single GPU? Would a system that runs Stockfish NNUE using a single CPU (multiple cores of course in today's world) with no dedicated GPU cost less than a system built for running Leela (assuming it is possible to have Leela run on a single CPU and a single GPU)?

I am ignorant of GPUs in general if my questions have not already made that plain for all to see.

Thanks.

[Jouni]

And now sixth successive 1-0. Specially in endgames SF is superior: win seen miles before Lc0 sees a loss.

[Ozymandias]

Strange match, even for 70 games and then suddenly +6 =14 -0.

Having the same run active since July 2019 doesn't seen to be working all that well.

[Raphexon]

Can Leela run on a single GPU? Would a system that runs Stockfish NNUE using a single CPU (multiple cores of course in today's world) with no dedicated GPU cost less than a system built for running Leela (assuming it is possible to have Leela run on a single CPU and a single GPU)?

I am ignorant of GPUs in general if my questions have not already made that plain for all to see.

Thanks.

An RTX3080* is a bit over twice as fast as an RTX2070.

SF12** with 16 Xeon E5-2670v3 @ 2.6 GHz cores and Leela with an RTX2070 are roughly equally strong.
http://www.fastgm.de/16-60-0.6.html

A ryzen 5950X is over twice as fast as previously mentioned CPU. (Bigger difference between 5950x and Xeon 2670 than between 3080 and 2070)

So single GPU vs single CPU Stockfish should win.
This example favours SF.

But with dual GPU Lc0 starts closing in.
2x 3080* only adds 700 dollars to the price while doubling cores for SF adds 1300-1400 dollars to the price of the SF box. (R9 5950X to TR 3970X***)



*RTX3090 isn't price competitive with dual 3080 for Lc0.
**current SF is 30 elo stronger at 60+0.6s.
***Which is also on a previous generation architecture with weaker cores than the 5950X.

[Milos]

Can Leela run on a single GPU? Would a system that runs Stockfish NNUE using a single CPU (multiple cores of course in today's world) with no dedicated GPU cost less than a system built for running Leela (assuming it is possible to have Leela run on a single CPU and a single GPU)?

I am ignorant of GPUs in general if my questions have not already made that plain for all to see.

Thanks.

An RTX3080* is a bit over twice as fast as an RTX2070.

SF12** with 16 Xeon E5-2670v3 @ 2.6 GHz cores and Leela with an RTX2070 are roughly equally strong.
http://www.fastgm.de/16-60-0.6.html

A ryzen 5950X is over twice as fast as previously mentioned CPU. (Bigger difference between 5950x and Xeon 2670 than between 3080 and 2070)

So single GPU vs single CPU Stockfish should win.
This example favours SF.

But with dual GPU Lc0 starts closing in.
2x 3080* only adds 700 dollars to the price while doubling cores for SF adds 1300-1400 dollars to the price of the SF box. (R9 5950X to TR 3970X***)



*RTX3090 isn't price competitive with dual 3080 for Lc0.
**current SF is 30 elo stronger at 60+0.6s.
***Which is also on a previous generation architecture with weaker cores than the 5950X.

E5-2670v3 is 12 slow cores and is 4 times slower than 5950X.
His setup is dual CPUs but he's using only 16 cores. It is still 2.4x slower than 5950X with 32 threads.
5950X is almost same price as RTX3080 standalone (plus you need a CPU with fast cores). 5950X one can actually buy (with a bit of waiting time) while for 3080 one has to pay a huge markup if they want it now. Moreover, 3970X price will drop well below MSRP of 2000$ once 5970X is out, so your price comparison is well off.
SFdev is closer to 50ELo stronger than SF12 at his TC. So SFdev on Ryzen 5950X will comfortably beat strongest Lc0 on RTX3080.
And this is on TC that is probably most favorable to Lc0. On longer TCs gap just increases in favor of SF (keeping in mind diminishing returns of longer TC ofc).
Two 3080 scale like crap since it's hard to find fast enough CPU to utilize them effectively.
In TCEC SF hardware has 2.4x more nps and 5 times more threads than 5950x. Lc0 hardware is more than 4x3080. And SF is trashing Lc0.

[Raphexon]

Can Leela run on a single GPU? Would a system that runs Stockfish NNUE using a single CPU (multiple cores of course in today's world) with no dedicated GPU cost less than a system built for running Leela (assuming it is possible to have Leela run on a single CPU and a single GPU)?

I am ignorant of GPUs in general if my questions have not already made that plain for all to see.

Thanks.

An RTX3080* is a bit over twice as fast as an RTX2070.

SF12** with 16 Xeon E5-2670v3 @ 2.6 GHz cores and Leela with an RTX2070 are roughly equally strong.
http://www.fastgm.de/16-60-0.6.html

A ryzen 5950X is over twice as fast as previously mentioned CPU. (Bigger difference between 5950x and Xeon 2670 than between 3080 and 2070)

So single GPU vs single CPU Stockfish should win.
This example favours SF.

But with dual GPU Lc0 starts closing in.
2x 3080* only adds 700 dollars to the price while doubling cores for SF adds 1300-1400 dollars to the price of the SF box. (R9 5950X to TR 3970X***)



*RTX3090 isn't price competitive with dual 3080 for Lc0.
**current SF is 30 elo stronger at 60+0.6s.
***Which is also on a previous generation architecture with weaker cores than the 5950X.

E5-2670v3 is 12 slow cores and is 4 times slower than 5950X.
His setup is dual CPUs but he's using only 16 cores. It is still 2.4x slower than 5950X with 32 threads.
5950X is almost same price as RTX3080 standalone (plus you need a CPU with fast cores). 5950X one can actually buy (with a bit of waiting time) while for 3080 one has to pay a huge markup if they want it now. Moreover, 3970X price will drop well below MSRP of 2000$ once 5970X is out, so your price comparison is well off.
SFdev is closer to 50ELo stronger than SF12 at his TC. So SFdev on Ryzen 5950X will comfortably beat strongest Lc0 on RTX3080.
And this is on TC that is probably most favorable to Lc0. On longer TCs gap just increases in favor of SF (keeping in mind diminishing returns of longer TC ofc).
Two 3080 scale like crap since it's hard to find fast enough CPU to utilize them effectively.
In TCEC SF hardware has 2.4x more nps and 5 times more threads than 5950x. Lc0 hardware is more than 4x3080. And SF is trashing Lc0.

I tried to stay conservative but yea...