Andscacs nnue 0.1

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Post Reply
User avatar
cdani
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:24 am
Location: Andorra
Contact:

Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by cdani » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:55 pm

Hello!
I was curious about what could I obtain adding nnue to Andscacs.
I went straight to nnue probe of Daniel Shawul:
https://github.com/dshawul/nnue-probe
After some work, manual tuning and testing, the result was beyond my expectations:

Code: Select all

50+0.5 
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Andscacs 0.95183    : 3042.4   14.5    620.0     695   89.2%
   2 Andscacs 0.95143    : 2669.6   14.5     75.0     695   10.8%
So more than 350 elo in self play!

Here the Windows executable and latest Stockfish nnue net:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8wlSmr_Hq3islynT1 ... Q?e=FVH5CN
You can change the nnue net, just overwrite the nn.bin file.

Of course rating lists that care about engine originality should not add this version.

Is a bit far from Stockfish, but is not bad:

Code: Select all

500+2
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Stockfish 311220    : 2961.6   20.8     83.5     109   76.6%
   2 Andscacs 0.95183    : 2750.4   20.8     25.5     109   23.4%

AndrewGrant
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:08 am
Location: U.S.A
Full name: Andrew Grant
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by AndrewGrant » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:03 pm

cdani wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:55 pm
Hello!
I was curious about what could I obtain adding nnue to Andscacs.
I went straight to nnue probe of Daniel Shawul:
https://github.com/dshawul/nnue-probe
After some work, manual tuning and testing, the result was beyond my expectations:

Code: Select all

50+0.5 
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Andscacs 0.95183    : 3042.4   14.5    620.0     695   89.2%
   2 Andscacs 0.95143    : 2669.6   14.5     75.0     695   10.8%
So more than 350 elo in self play!

Here the Windows executable and latest Stockfish nnue net:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8wlSmr_Hq3islynT1 ... Q?e=FVH5CN
You can change the nnue net, just overwrite the nn.bin file.

Of course rating lists that care about engine originality should not add this version.

Is a bit far from Stockfish, but is not bad:

Code: Select all

500+2
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Stockfish 311220    : 2961.6   20.8     83.5     109   76.6%
   2 Andscacs 0.95183    : 2750.4   20.8     25.5     109   23.4%
:( I'll stick to plain old Andscacs. There are more than enough Stockfish nets floating around.

User avatar
cdani
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:24 am
Location: Andorra
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by cdani » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:04 pm

AndrewGrant wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:03 pm
:( I'll stick to plain old Andscacs. There are more than enough Stockfish nets floating around.
Was just a fun experiment :-) Nothing bad.

Damir
Posts: 2472
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Denmark
Full name: Damir Desevac

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by Damir » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:13 pm

Thanks for the new Andscacs Dani. Good to see you start working on your engine again. :) :)

User avatar
maksimKorzh
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:37 pm
Location: Ukraine
Full name: Maksim Korzh
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by maksimKorzh » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:36 pm

cdani wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:55 pm
Hello!
I was curious about what could I obtain adding nnue to Andscacs.
I went straight to nnue probe of Daniel Shawul:
https://github.com/dshawul/nnue-probe
After some work, manual tuning and testing, the result was beyond my expectations:

Code: Select all

50+0.5 
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Andscacs 0.95183    : 3042.4   14.5    620.0     695   89.2%
   2 Andscacs 0.95143    : 2669.6   14.5     75.0     695   10.8%
So more than 350 elo in self play!

Here the Windows executable and latest Stockfish nnue net:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8wlSmr_Hq3islynT1 ... Q?e=FVH5CN
You can change the nnue net, just overwrite the nn.bin file.

Of course rating lists that care about engine originality should not add this version.

Is a bit far from Stockfish, but is not bad:

Code: Select all

500+2
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Stockfish 311220    : 2961.6   20.8     83.5     109   76.6%
   2 Andscacs 0.95183    : 2750.4   20.8     25.5     109   23.4%
Hmm... 350 Elo doesn't seem to much - I had around 600 Elo gain in BBC which is very very basic but stil 2900+ at CCRL:
https://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4 ... NUE_64-bit

I think if you tune eval pruning and make 100% sure to give 50rule move penalty in eval() it would be much stronger.
Without 50rule penalty SF NNUE failed to find checkmate in KQPK endgame in my case.

Anyway congrats with your experiment - this is obviously fun!
I wish someone created a very detailed tutorial on how to design/implement/train NNUE from scratch -
unfortunately there's a abyss gap on this question - those smart enough just doing their own networks
while noobs are doomed to HCE. For me this is discrimination.
I would've definitely create a youtube tutorial on NNUE from scratch if only I was smart enough(((
Wukong Xiangqi (Chinese chess engine + apps to embed into 3rd party websites):
https://github.com/maksimKorzh/wukong-xiangqi

Chess programming YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB9-pr ... KKqDgXhsMQ

User avatar
Sylwy
Posts: 3572
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: IASI (Romania) - the historical capital of MOLDOVA

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by Sylwy » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:45 pm

THANK YOU ! :wink:

Image


Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: Trier, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by Frank Quisinsky » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:54 pm

Hi Daniel,

a good start point with a new motivation!
Better is to develops an own net and maybe your site will be again available.

I am very happy that you are back.

If you create a new website, I have a Andscacs collection for you :-)
You can add a link to my site or you can add your own versions (the collection by Andscacs lovers) on your own site.
In this case I will delete the *.zp file from my site ... of course, your decision.

Go Andscacs go ...
Great engine, great playing style and the programmer is back ... great news!

Best for you
Frank
I like computer chess!

Gabor Szots
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:43 am
Location: Szentendre, Hungary
Full name: Gabor Szots

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by Gabor Szots » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:45 pm

maksimKorzh wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:36 pm
Hmm... 350 Elo doesn't seem to much - I had around 600 Elo gain in BBC which is very very basic but stil 2900+ at CCRL:
https://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4 ... NUE_64-bit
You went from 2100 to 2900. He went from 3200 to 3450 (approximately).
Gabor Szots
CCRL testing group

User avatar
maksimKorzh
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:37 pm
Location: Ukraine
Full name: Maksim Korzh
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by maksimKorzh » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:13 pm

Gabor Szots wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:45 pm
maksimKorzh wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:36 pm
Hmm... 350 Elo doesn't seem to much - I had around 600 Elo gain in BBC which is very very basic but stil 2900+ at CCRL:
https://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4 ... NUE_64-bit
You went from 2100 to 2900. He went from 3200 to 3450 (approximately).
Oh... Should've checked the rating firsts...
In this case very very impressive.
Wukong Xiangqi (Chinese chess engine + apps to embed into 3rd party websites):
https://github.com/maksimKorzh/wukong-xiangqi

Chess programming YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB9-pr ... KKqDgXhsMQ

Dann Corbit
Posts: 12012
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: Andscacs nnue 0.1

Post by Dann Corbit » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:40 pm

cdani wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:55 pm
Hello!
I was curious about what could I obtain adding nnue to Andscacs.
I went straight to nnue probe of Daniel Shawul:
https://github.com/dshawul/nnue-probe
After some work, manual tuning and testing, the result was beyond my expectations:

Code: Select all

50+0.5 
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Andscacs 0.95183    : 3042.4   14.5    620.0     695   89.2%
   2 Andscacs 0.95143    : 2669.6   14.5     75.0     695   10.8%
So more than 350 elo in self play!

Here the Windows executable and latest Stockfish nnue net:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8wlSmr_Hq3islynT1 ... Q?e=FVH5CN
You can change the nnue net, just overwrite the nn.bin file.

Of course rating lists that care about engine originality should not add this version.
This is not only a dreaded disease, it is stupidity at its very highest leve.
Please explain to me how letting a bunch of engines mindlessly pound away at each other and writing out a bunch of numbers that nobody even knows exactly what they are expresses originality.

In the first place, it is well demonstrated in copyright law that a table of numbers (e.g. an NN net) does not represent originality and cannot be copyrighted.

In the second place, the humans are adding no additional originality whatsoever. It is like there are a million little workers all smashing a block of marble into dust and at the end, someone says that they invented dust.

I see very little originality in any of this, and yet it is being used as an excuse to exclude bands of people and engines from tournaments.
I guess they did not copy as quickly as the others who are accepted.

The chess community can have their phony-baloney "This is my original stuff and you had better not touch it" mentality. i find it very tiring,

Do not get me wrong. It is a lot of work to write LC0. It is a lot of work to graft NNUE onto SF. It is a lot of work to run a million trials to make a net.
It is just that there is no originality in it whatsoever.
Is a bit far from Stockfish, but is not bad:

Code: Select all

500+2
   # PLAYER              : RATING  ERROR   POINTS  PLAYED    (%)
   1 Stockfish 311220    : 2961.6   20.8     83.5     109   76.6%
   2 Andscacs 0.95183    : 2750.4   20.8     25.5     109   23.4%
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Post Reply