Dragon by Komodo Chess

[lkaufman]

I would like to see penguin against Komodo at Bullet. It would be great !

What would you think would be a fair match? Knight odds at 1' + 1" perhaps?

I think it would be nice. I think So already player at Knight handicap against Stockfish some years ago at 1 min and lost badly :

Of course no human has much chance against Dragon with knight odds at one minute without increment, the one second inc makes all the difference. Also I note that in the three games of SF vs So, Wesley never played the obviously correct reply 1...d5! to 1e4 when the b1 knight is missing, he probably didn't even look at knight odds before the games. In fact 1.e4 is just a bad move for White unless Black is forbidden to reply 1...d5. That's a big problem with knight odds. I suspect that many of Morphy's opponents either played with the restriction of answering 1e4 with 1...e5 or else did so on grounds of sportsmanship. We would either have to alternate knights and just avoid 1e4 when b1 is off, or add the 1e4 e5 restriction.

Maybe you want to test Dragon Komodo before to have an idea how strong it ll play at bullet. In anycase, Penguin would love to challenge it. Also, you might consider many others handicap, even a 3 pawn handicap at bullet or maybe blitz to see how it does. Hikaru plays himself many handicap game against lower opponent, this time it would be the opposite.

Could you give me some specifics about handicap games Hikaru has played against lower rated human opponents, such as what handicaps, what time controls, and what chess.com ratings the opponents had? I'm especially interested in games he played this way against titled players. I don't expect complete details, just a summary of whatever you know.

He played too many different handicap games and mostly against opponent with a very low rating compared to him. But he wins sometimes against higher players with strange odds like in this game : starting the video at : 8:02.

Also he wons against 2479 players here with different odds, but on time :

It is not the same handicap you like to propose, but perhaps it would help you calculate your odds of winnings. You can write "Hikaru odds game" on youtube and find more exemple if you like.

Thanks. I only found one normal handicap game, where he gave f2 odds in a 3 min game to an IM and won, not surprisingly to me. Maybe he'll try giving someone two pawns in preparation for receiving that handicap.

[JJJ]

In anycase, do you think you ll propose knight handicap at 1+1 to Penguin ? He is slighty below Hikaru at bullet.

[lkaufman]

In anycase, do you think you ll propose knight handicap at 1+1 to Penguin ? He is slighty below Hikaru at bullet.

This afternoon about 4 pm eastern standard time I'm planning to have Dragon play four games against my son IM Raymond Kaufman ("Mimsychess") on chess.com at knight odds at the same time limit as the Hikaru match, to test everything out. With that experience and then the Hikaru match we'll have a better idea of what is reasonable. I see no reason we can't propose a bullet match with Penguin after this; I don't know him but I can send him a message.

[Mars]

(snip) With that experience and then the Hikaru match we'll have a better idea of what is reasonable. I see no reason we can't propose a bullet match with Penguin after this; I don't know him but I can send him a message.

He seems to be a nice young guy, saw him recently on chess.com playing many bullet games against Farujia from Iran. Probably easier to convince him to play such a match first.

Although the following enounter over 117 games between him and Hikaru is already some time ago

I believe the latter is still 200-300 bullet points stronger than Tang (penguin).

[Nordlandia]

Slightly deviate from the current discussion. Just asking whether dynamic contemt can be made adjustable as an parameter. Default contemt is static and both effect each other both ways.

[Nordlandia]

This is how it currently look like in latest Cfish.

[Cornfed]

Question about the NNUE training. Does Komodo....err, Dragon, train on standard (not simple to calculate) endings?
If I could post a diagram I would (just don't know how to) but basically this...and asking because I won an ending like this today.

White (me) is a pawn up in a rook and pawn ending.
I foresee a way to get an outside passer on the queenside (f file).
White/Blacks kingside pawns are mirrors on h3/g2/f2 vs h6j/g7/f7

I know the stronger side will not want to let Black get in h5, so I play g4 and a few moves later the queenside pawns clarify to a c3 pawn and my rook on c5 with his on b3.

Question, would it pay to train 'standard winning attempts' via the NNUE....seems like there are a number of positions in early/mid-endgames where a search would find those positions and steer the engine toward the win which might be hard to find by mere calculation.

[lkaufman]

Question about the NNUE training. Does Komodo....err, Dragon, train on standard (not simple to calculate) endings?
If I could post a diagram I would (just don't know how to) but basically this...and asking because I won an ending like this today.

White (me) is a pawn up in a rook and pawn ending.
I foresee a way to get an outside passer on the queenside (f file).
White/Blacks kingside pawns are mirrors on h3/g2/f2 vs h6j/g7/f7

I know the stronger side will not want to let Black get in h5, so I play g4 and a few moves later the queenside pawns clarify to a c3 pawn and my rook on c5 with his on b3.

Question, would it pay to train 'standard winning attempts' via the NNUE....seems like there are a number of positions in early/mid-endgames where a search would find those positions and steer the engine toward the win which might be hard to find by mere calculation.

Well, it trains on games. I suppose one could have Komodo (or Dragon) play out thousands of games from specified endgame positions and then train on those games, but coming up with a suitable collection of endgame positions is a lot of work unless one already exists (?).

[JohnW]

Just wanted to say that I am really impressed how well Dragon has been playing against other engines I have installed on my PC. I really feel like I got my moneys worth in this purchase. Great job!

[bastiball]

How much the contempt affect Dragon? or it doesn't affect at all?