Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

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Nordlandia
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by Nordlandia » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:47 pm

Looking forward for Komodo Dragon.

Couple of questions for Komodo 14.1 MCTS.

Which "MCTS Hash" value is recommended over the default if system memory is more than suffice. In my case 128 GB.

Time control i test with are 30m+30s, 45m+30s, and 60m+30 and for overnight games 90m+30s. My cpu is i7-5960X clocked at 4.5GHz.

Do regular hash size affect "MCTS Hash" and vice versa if MCTS is enabled.

mjlef
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by mjlef » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:01 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:47 pm
Looking forward for Komodo Dragon.

Couple of questions for Komodo 14.1 MCTS.

Which "MCTS Hash" value is recommended over the default if system memory is more than suffice. In my case 128 GB.

Time control i test with are 30m+30s, 45m+30s, and 60m+30 and for overnight games 90m+30s. My cpu is i7-5960X clocked at 4.5GHz.

Do regular hash size affect "MCTS Hash" and vice versa if MCTS is enabled.
Machines vary, but you can measure node per second and see about how big it should be.

Set Threads to what your machine supports (8 with hyperthreading off or 16 with hyperthreading on)
search for about 10 seconds and note the number of positions/nodes it shows and divide by 10, or just use the nps if your GUI shows that.
Think about how long you would be analyzing a position. Lets say 8 hours. 8 x 60 x 60 = 28,800 seconds. Multiply this by 40 (about the size of a node in MCTS mode) then times your number of nodes per second. Then say a factor of 3 since endgames go quicker. Divide by 1 million and that is how many megs you should set.

If you are just playing games then default will probably be fine. But long analysis on many threads might require an increase.

Mark

JJJ
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by JJJ » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:15 pm

I really can't wait for the next handicap match you ll propose Larry ! Plz let us know anything about it, thanks you.

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:19 am

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:17 am
We can't call it Komodo 15 due to contractual commitments, and "NNUE" is too technical and obscure for ordinary chess players. Also chess.com (which had a major role in this) really likes the Dragon name. So the program will say "Dragon by Komodo Chess", but I expect the testing groups (but not chess.com) will just call it Komodo Dragon (or Dragon-Komodo). As long as the name includes both Komodo and Dragon, everyone should be happy, there is no confusion with either normal Komodo or with some other Dragon engine, and the Dragon name means that it is the NNUE version. It will have an embedded net which will be on by default (user can turn it off).
We plan to have some test games between Dragon and my son IM Raymond Kaufman on chess.com this afternoon (Saturday) at 5 pm Eastern Standard time, probably at knight odds. Look for "playkomodo" games. This is partly to look for any unexpected problems, and also to try to determine whether standard mode or MCTS mode is more appropriate for Dragon when giving handicaps to humans. This is not a formal event, just a test.
Will regular Komodo continued to be developed, or will Komodo 14.1 be the last update of Komodo with all further development directed towards Komodo Dragon?

mjlef
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by mjlef » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:52 pm

Madeleine Birchfield wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:19 am
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:17 am
We can't call it Komodo 15 due to contractual commitments, and "NNUE" is too technical and obscure for ordinary chess players. Also chess.com (which had a major role in this) really likes the Dragon name. So the program will say "Dragon by Komodo Chess", but I expect the testing groups (but not chess.com) will just call it Komodo Dragon (or Dragon-Komodo). As long as the name includes both Komodo and Dragon, everyone should be happy, there is no confusion with either normal Komodo or with some other Dragon engine, and the Dragon name means that it is the NNUE version. It will have an embedded net which will be on by default (user can turn it off).
We plan to have some test games between Dragon and my son IM Raymond Kaufman on chess.com this afternoon (Saturday) at 5 pm Eastern Standard time, probably at knight odds. Look for "playkomodo" games. This is partly to look for any unexpected problems, and also to try to determine whether standard mode or MCTS mode is more appropriate for Dragon when giving handicaps to humans. This is not a formal event, just a test.
Will regular Komodo continued to be developed, or will Komodo 14.1 be the last update of Komodo with all further development directed towards Komodo Dragon?
Yesterday, we merged the code base for Komodo and Dragon by Komodo Chess, so we retain the ability to make compiles of either version. Given the large elo gain NNUE has given us, we do not plan on releasing new versions of Komodo for now. Note that Dragon has a UCI option "Use Regular Eval" which tells Dragon to use the Komodo regular (not NNUE) evaluation. So basically Komodo still exists and can be switched to at any time you want. It is not quite the same as say Komodo 14.1, because some search parameters have changed with Dragon, but it is close. In a sense it is 8 programs: Dragon, Komodo, Dragon MCTS, and Komodo MCTS, with both NNUE or Regular evals depending on how you set it. Komodo will still exist in some things like Apps or commercial chess boards which do not have sufficient CPUs or memory to run Dragon by Komodo Chess well.

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Ozymandias
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by Ozymandias » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:03 pm

mjlef wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:52 pm
In a sense it is 8 programs: Dragon, Komodo, Dragon MCTS, and Komodo MCTS, with both NNUE or Regular evals depending on how you set it.
That will be a major selling point, right?

Stonker
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by Stonker » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:16 pm

I know Dragon is due "soon" but is it possible to have at least a slightly more defined eta, for us keen Komodophiles? Cheers...

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MikeB
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:25 pm

Larry,

I went to to purchase Komodo Dragon on your website — but when I got to the Paypal page, it still did not show any discount (Komodo 14 owner) so I just exited Paypal without purchasing it.

Best,
Michael Byrne
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Gabor Szots
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by Gabor Szots » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:35 pm

I see the new engine is called Dragon by Komodo Chess but no version number is given. How are we to distinguish it from future versions?
Gabor Szots
CCRL testing group

mjlef
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Re: Komodo 14.1 Release and Dragon Announcement

Post by mjlef » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Gabor Szots wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:35 pm
I see the new engine is called Dragon by Komodo Chess but no version number is given. How are we to distinguish it from future versions?
We went with no version number for the original release (as many programs and movies do, like "Back to the Future"). Future versions will have version numbers. You can consider this Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0.

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