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[d]rnbqkb1r/pp2p1pp/2pp1n2/5p2/2PP4/6P1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK1NR w KQkq -
In my database, this position has the very unusual designation of "HD 4" in the Opening field.
I guess it is a mistake, but I was wondering if there is a name for the opening terminating in this position.
It gets played a lot, I have more than 1000 games with this position.

Hello Dann:

I get:
After playing 1.- d4, f5; 2.- c4, Nf6; 3.- g3, d6; 4.- Bg2, c6 in Arena 2.0.1 GUI. 'Hort-Antoshin System' search in Google returns lots of results. It is possible that Arena uses a list similar to the next one, which contains:
The Encyclopedia of Chess Openings does not give names to the openings. In the Volume A of the edition of 1979: 1.- d4, f5; 2.- c4, Nf6; 3.- g3, d6; 4.- Bg2, c6 is the first line under A86 code, which agrees with Arena.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:27 pm [d]rnbqkb1r/pp2p1pp/2pp1n2/5p2/2PP4/6P1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK1NR w KQkq -
In my database, this position has the very unusual designation of "HD 4" in the Opening field.
I guess it is a mistake, but I was wondering if there is a name for the opening terminating in this position.
It gets played a lot, I have more than 1000 games with this position.

Hi Dann,

I have the book "Winning with the Dutch [Defense]" by International Master Robert Bellin (ISBN 0-7134-5760-0) and it classified as Leningrad Variation, Main line, which occurs after :

1 d4 f5 2 g3 Kf6 3 Bg2 g6 4 Kf3 Bg7 5 0-0 0-0 6 c4 d6 and it usually continues with 7 Kc3 c6

In the diagram you showed, it seems that Black still haven't play g6 thus, and castling are still to come.

Bonjour Charly,

You've set up the wrong position. Indeed, your moves involve a Black fianchetto leading to a Leningrad Dutch. However, that is NOT the position that Dann provided. Please re-read his post.

¡Hola! Ajedrecista. You're correct that after the "standard" 5 Nc3 Qc7 the position is indeed the Hort-Antoshin Variation. However, Black need not play 5...Qc7. Instead, after 5...g6 6 Nf3 Bg7, we have a Leningrad Variation.

All the best,
-Steve-

Stephen Ham wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:15 pm Bonjour Charly,

You've set up the wrong position. Indeed, your moves involve a Black fianchetto leading to a Leningrad Dutch. However, that is NOT the position that Dann provided. Please re-read his post.

All the best,
-Steve-

Bonjour Stephen,

The position Dann showed is the basis of the Leningrad system in the Dutch. It is obvious here that g6 is going to be played.

I myself play sometimes this system. Once you played c6 & d6 with f5, g6 is very common.

Bonjour Charly,

Again, you're discussing a variation that does not exist on the board.

Yes, Black can, and perhaps should fianchetto next. This would then, and only then, transpose into a Leningrad Variation. But until/unless that Black fianchetto is played, it is NOT a Leningrad Variation.

Also, it is NOT obvious how Black will continue. For example, Black commonly plays here 5...Qc7, which is the Hort-Antoshin Variation.

Conclusion: The opening's nomenclature is dependent upon how Black continues.

All the best,
-Steve-

Stephen Ham wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:35 pm Bonjour Charly,

Again, you're discussing a variation that does not exist on the board.

Yes, Black can, and perhaps should fianchetto next. This would then, and only then, transpose into a Leningrad Variation. But until/unless that Black fianchetto is played, it is NOT a Leningrad Variation.

Also, it is NOT obvious how Black will continue. For example, Black commonly plays here 5...Qc7, which is the Hort-Antoshin Variation.

Conclusion: The opening's nomenclature is dependent upon how Black continues.

All the best,
-Steve-

agreed.
I should have said : this COULD be a Leningrad variation.

Charly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:21 pm

Stephen Ham wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:15 pm Bonjour Charly,

You've set up the wrong position. Indeed, your moves involve a Black fianchetto leading to a Leningrad Dutch. However, that is NOT the position that Dann provided. Please re-read his post.

All the best,
-Steve-

Bonjour Stephen,

The position Dann showed is the basis of the Leningrad system in the Dutch. It is obvious here that g6 is going to be played.

I myself play sometimes this system. Once you played c6 & d6 with f5, g6 is very common.

This position is somewhat rare....I call it a Dutch-Flex or Possible Dutch Hedgehog with a possible Leningrad Dutch setup..
Position could use some 'Deep Analysis' White should have a edge but is quite double edged...


[Event "Dutch Flex Line-Leningrad-Hedgehog"]
[Site "SW USA"]
[Date "2020.10.26"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Player 1"]
[Black "Player #2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A86"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Annotator "Ross-SF SE-3"]
[PlyCount "24"]
[TimeControl "40/180+7:30/60+7:60+7"]
[pgn] 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. g3 d6 4. Bg2 (4. Nf3 c6 5. Bg2 Nbd7 6.
O-O (6. Ng5 !? h6 7. Ne6 ! Qb6 8. e4 ! fxe4 9. Bxe4 Ne5) (6. Ng5 Nb6 ! 7. b3 g6 !? 8. O-O
Bg7) 6... e5 ! 7. Nc3 e4 !) 4... c6 5. Nc3 (5. Nh3 e6 6. O-O Be7 7. Nc3 O-O) 5...
Be6 6. Qb3 Qc7 7. d5 Bf7 8. Nf3 g6 9. Ng5 (9. O-O Bg7 10. Rd1 O-O 11. Nd4 cxd5
12. Nxd5 Nxd5 13. cxd5 Nd7 14. Bg5) 9... Bg8 10. e4 h6 11. Ne6 ! Bxe6 12. dxe6
Na6 1/2-1/2[/pgn]


Without a doubt this line could use some Deep Computer Analysis...my chess engines avoid these Dutch positions like the Plague for the most part...rarely to never do I see this line explored in chess engine games or matches..

Pgn games file...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/s29k4x77h ... es.7z/file

That position popped up on a query meant to expose positions which have a small proportion of draws.
The number of wins and losses far outnumbers the draw count, which is very interesting.

Your file also shows the draw rarity leaning: