What in the world can that be?!

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Maarten Claessens
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:08 am
Location: Near Nijmegen

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by Maarten Claessens »

Dann Corbit wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:27 pm [d]rnbqkb1r/pp2p1pp/2pp1n2/5p2/2PP4/6P1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK1NR w KQkq -
In my database, this position has the very unusual designation of "HD 4" in the Opening field.
I guess it is a mistake, but I was wondering if there is a name for the opening terminating in this position.
It gets played a lot, I have more than 1000 games with this position.
"HD 4" is a NIC (New in Chess) classification-code (Holland Defence) for the line 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 d6 4.Bg2 c6
Nothing is unstable (Lawrence Krauss)
jefk
Posts: 626
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Full name: Jef Kaan

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by jefk »

with my (almost expired) program Bookbuilder , i
also get the name : Dutch defense, Hort Antoshin system

As for Arena, it has a very 'creative' way of assigning opening
names, my impression is that , in later stages of a game;
if it can find in any way a possible sequence of moves, backwards
calculated, which looks like the opening, it suggests that name.
(Nb with transpositions, if the position would be a transposition
to a (longer) sequence of moves which corresponds *exactly*
to the position, then using such a name would be valid; otherwise
it's speculative.
PS as for Chessbase, with all respect (and it got better by the year)
assigning an opening name isn't perfect yet (maybe Eco code is); but
it's alsodiscipline in chess theory which is not exactly defined, sometimes
ambiguous, or even rather vauge , especially when dealing with gambits
and unorthodox openings. Does it matter, well apparently not for
strong chess players (who remember moves/positions), but for average
players, the clue of an opening name sometimes can be helpful imho.
jefk
Posts: 626
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Full name: Jef Kaan

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by jefk »

in addition,

https://www.chess.com/openings/Dutch-De ... hin-System

as for programs assigning names (via Eco code and then subdivision with some names), nowadays imho it looks like chess.com does a pretty good job
(yes, also with gambits)>

When chess.com started, i doubted if this would become a success, knowing about already many online chess arenas as Fics etc. But looks like, in the -sometimes- successfull American way, they made themselves a place to stay.
(personally i would like to see a cool 3D interface, like optionally in Fritz, but this would use a lot of bandwidth when playing via internet, anyway for slow games i think it would be a nice feature of chess.com)

PS for those interested in bookbuilder, send me a (polite) mail
at superchess@ziggo.nl, and i can send you a copy via wetransfer or so.
For programmers (China maybe !?!) , it's made in BCB6 (which still is available via Borland for free, i think), and i'm willing to make the code(s) available for free if you're interested (yep it was quite some effort, but i'm not in writing and not software anymore, and i'm willing to go opensource; i was hacked anyway 1.5 yrs ago, but without any guidance from me in the last years of my life i don't think such hackers will be able to use it in any productive way (one of my ideas was to make into a didactic program for young (promising) chess players, to guide them int the wilderness of chess opening theory....
jefk
Posts: 626
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Full name: Jef Kaan

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by jefk »

some more info for (relatively) newbies
(especially in opening theory), here's my blog
http://superchess.blogspot.com/
Nb download link via anonfiles doesn't work anymore.

As for bookbuilder here;s an old link (with an older version)
https://download.cnet.com/Bookbuilder/3 ... 14324.html

As for my latest (private) version, it contains a neat compromise
between size and best opening lines (which i may post later
on my blog). and i'm intending to update it with SFNnue (endnodes).

NB considering newer opening theory with titans as lco
and SFnnue (why not with somes threads Mcts?) there are
tools as Banksia Gui, Aquarium, etc, but also Bookbuilder.
With the newer neural engines i see a shift towards 1.e4
but anyway chess remains a draw so there's more to
opening theory than computers (or Gm's) and backsolving.
(hint: as smart human chess players know its about style
knowing your opponent, knowing yourself (*), etc.).

(*) which is probably a topic more suitable for the chess
thinkers forum, abolished or not, (
gnothi seauthon (Socrates(
:)
BrendanJNorman
Posts: 2526
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:43 am
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by BrendanJNorman »

Too much relying on computers to think for you and not enough logical, actual CHESS thinking.

Black has played ...c6 instead of the usual ...g6 , but the only benefit I can think of for this move-order would be to give black the option of switching to a Stonewall Dutch via a ...d5 and ...e6 move order.

Most likely from my experience is that black will still just play ...g6, ...Bg7, ...0-0, ...Qe8 and ...e5 as usual in the Leningrad system.

The insertion of ...c6 would be useful to keep white knight out of b5 (it will come to c3) once black has played ...Qe8 and ...e5 (dxe5 and Nb5 often come from the white side in this line) and in this case would really just be somewhat of a finesse.

Move order matters less in closed systems like the Dutch.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12540
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: What in the world can that be?!

Post by Dann Corbit »

Maarten Claessens wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:46 pm
Dann Corbit wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:27 pm [d]rnbqkb1r/pp2p1pp/2pp1n2/5p2/2PP4/6P1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK1NR w KQkq -
In my database, this position has the very unusual designation of "HD 4" in the Opening field.
I guess it is a mistake, but I was wondering if there is a name for the opening terminating in this position.
It gets played a lot, I have more than 1000 games with this position.
"HD 4" is a NIC (New in Chess) classification-code (Holland Defence) for the line 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 d6 4.Bg2 c6
It seems a bit premature according to other classifications (which expect the queen on c7). But it is the name given to that position by NIC (calling it Hort / Antoshin):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIC-Schl%C3%BCssel
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.