Knight Sac by Thinker 5.1c Passive - Does Your Engine Play It?

[BrendanJNorman]

wasn't there some kind of Thinker scandal?

Yeah. Like many engines, it was dragged before a witch-trial, accused of cloning and the programmers withdrew from computer chess.

[carldaman]

wasn't there some kind of Thinker scandal?

Yeah. Like many engines, it was dragged before a witch-trial, accused of cloning and the programmers withdrew from computer chess.

Yet, the supposed cloned-from engine played nothing like Thinker.

This why I still prefer classical evaluations where one can tweak the engine to play like this. Much, much harder to do this with black-box NNUE, where you are at a loss already if you try to even adjust contempt settings (which aren't adjustable any way). Standard NNUE plays way too drawish chess against weaker opponents [such as us, humans] - unjustifiably so, given then huge strength gains.

Maybe someone like the Ethereal author should look for ways to get creative in this direction, parlaying strength into style, if he doesn't like NNUE.

[jorose]

Interesting test position!

I threw it at Winter dev and it seems to change its mind a couple of times, but generally is trying to give a piece in various ways.

The only depths where it isn't clearly trying to sac a piece with white are the first two. PV for depth 3 is 1.e5 dxe5 2.Nxf7.
It also likes the immediate Nxf7 as well as Ne6 depending on depth. At the end of the brief time I gave it, the preference was on Ne6.

A lot of the PVs started with e5 hxg5 exf6 Qxf6, which illustrates the problem, which is that if white does not sac the piece he is just clearly worse. That's also why the engines don't like 1.Nf3.

I like the depth 12 PV: 1.Nxf7 Kxf7 2.e5 dxe5 3.f5!? Maybe not the best, but definitely thematic.

Code: Select all

info  depth 1 seldepth 5 time 1 nodes 138 nps 69000 score cp -56 wdl 248 284 467 pv e4e5
info  depth 2 seldepth 7 time 2 nodes 269 nps 89666 score cp -56 wdl 248 284 467 pv e4e5 d6e5
info  depth 3 seldepth 7 time 3 nodes 441 nps 110250 score cp -95 wdl 192 258 549 pv e4e5 d6e5 g5f7
info  depth 4 seldepth 7 time 4 nodes 604 nps 120800 score cp -95 wdl 192 258 549 pv e4e5 d6e5 g5f7 g8f7
info  depth 5 seldepth 8 time 9 nodes 1638 nps 163800 score cp -85 wdl 216 245 537 pv g5f7 g8f7 d1d3 a8b8 e4e5
info  depth 6 seldepth 9 time 11 nodes 1978 nps 164833 score cp -85 wdl 213 251 536 pv g5f7 g8f7 d1d3 f6h5 g2g4 h5f6
info  depth 7 seldepth 12 time 22 nodes 3687 nps 160304 score cp -124 wdl 189 171 639 pv g5f7 g8f7 d1d3 f6h5 g2g4 h5f6 g4g5
info  depth 8 seldepth 15 time 34 nodes 6437 nps 183914 score cp -104 wdl 180 252 567 pv g5f7 g8f7 f4f5 g6g5 d1c2 d7e5 c1e3 c8d7
info  depth 9 seldepth 15 time 45 nodes 11562 nps 251347 score cp -127 wdl 192 154 653 pv g5f7 g8f7 f4f5 g6g5 c1e3 d7e5 d1b3 c8d7 b3b7
info  depth 10 seldepth 21 time 62 nodes 22614 nps 358952 score cp -13 wdl 324 299 376 pv g5f7 g8f7 e4e5 d7b6 e5e6 c8e6 d5e6 e8e6 f4f5 g6f5
info  depth 11 seldepth 21 time 98 nodes 53273 nps 538111 score cp -111 wdl 188 213 598 pv g5f7 g8f7 e4e5 d6e5 f4f5 g6g5 h2h4 g5h4 d5d6 f7g8 d1b3 g8h7 c1e3
info  depth 12 seldepth 23 time 120 nodes 73495 nps 607396 score cp -85 wdl 239 199 561 pv g5f7 g8f7 e4e5 d6e5 f4f5 g6g5 h2h4 g5h4 d5d6 f7g8 c3d5 f6d5 d1d5 g8h8 e2h5
info  depth 13 seldepth 25 time 248 nodes 191101 nps 767473 score cp -115 wdl 178 222 599 pv g5f7 g8f7 e4e5 d6e5 f4f5 g6f5 f1f5 f7g8 e2h5 e8f8 d5d6 f6h5 f5h5 d7f6 h5h6 g7h6 c1h6
info  depth 14 seldepth 28 time 458 nodes 377848 nps 823198 score cp -78 wdl 211 280 508 pv g5f7 g8f7 e4e5 d6e5 d5d6 e5f4 c1f4 e8e6 e2d3 d7b6 a2a4 c5c4 d3g6 f7g6 a4a5 b6d7 c3d5
info  depth 15 seldepth 30 time 1773 nodes 1470842 nps 829110 hashfull 6 score cp -85 wdl 175 326 498 pv g5e6 f7e6 d5e6 e8e6 e4e5 b7b5 e5f6 d7f6 e2d3 e6e7 d3g6 b5b4 c3d5 f6d5 d1d5 c8e6 d5e4 d6d5 g6h7
info  depth 16 seldepth 31 time 3007 nodes 2554652 nps 849285 hashfull 11 score cp -93 wdl 198 255 547 pv g5f7 g8f7 e2d3 d7b6 d1f3 d8c7 c1d2 c8d7 h2h3 c5c4 d3c2 b6d5 f4f5 c7c5 g1h2 d5e7 d2e3 c5c6 f5g6 e7g6
info  depth 17 seldepth 33 time 6189 nodes 5106156 nps 824904 hashfull 16 score cp -128 wdl 159 218 622 pv g5f7 g8f7 d1c2 f7g8 e4e5 d6e5 c2g6 e5e4 g6g3 g8h8 d5d6 d8b6 f1d1 d7f8 c1e3 c8f5 a2a3 b6b2 e3c5
info  depth 18 seldepth 33 time 8909 nodes 7466733 nps 838017 hashfull 22 score cp -116 wdl 124 323 551 pv e4e5 h6g5 e5f6 d8f6 f4g5 f6d4 g1h1 d4d1 e2d1 b7b5 c1f4 b5b4 c3a4 g7e5 d1b3 c8b7 b3c4 a8d8 h2h4 e5f4 f1f4
info  depth 19 seldepth 34 time 12317 nodes 10621643 nps 862286 hashfull 33 score cp -133 wdl 162 198 639 pv g5e6 f7e6 d5e6 d7b6 f4f5 d6d5 e4d5 g6f5 e2f3 f6d5 c3d5 g7d4 d5e3 d8g5 g1h1 d4e3 c1e3 g5e3 f3h5 c8e6 h5e8 a8e8 d1h5 e8f8 h5g6 g8h8 a1d1 b6d7
info  depth 20 seldepth 39 time 22957 nodes 20447921 nps 890666 hashfull 66 score cp -132 wdl 97 329 573 pv g5e6 f7e6 d5e6 d7b6 f4f5 d6d5 a2a4 d5e4 d1d8 e8d8 e6e7 d8e8 a4a5 g6f5 a5b6 c8e6 c1e3 e8e7 e3c5 e7d7 a1d1 g8h7 d1d7 f6d7 c5e3 d7e5
info  depth 21 seldepth 41 time 35872 nodes 31618547 nps 881402 hashfull 101 score cp -106 wdl 102 402 495 pv e4e5 h6g5 e5f6 d8f6 f4g5 f6d4 g1h1 d4d1 e2d1 b7b5 c1f4 d7e5 c3e4 e5c4 e4f6 g7f6 g5f6 c4b2 f4d6 b2d1 f1d1 c5c4 a2a4 c8b7 a4b5 a6b5 a1a8 e8a8
info  depth 22 seldepth 41 time 39568 nodes 34931162 nps 882791 hashfull 114 score cp -127 wdl 198 142 659 pv e4e5 h6g5 e5f6 d8f6 g1h1 f6e7 e2d3 g5f4 c1f4 d7e5 d3c2 b7b5 f1e1 c8d7 d1c1 f7f5 f4g5 e7f7 c1f4 b5b4 c3a4 d7b5 a4b6
info  depth 23 seldepth 41 time 54712 nodes 48095570 nps 879051 hashfull 149 score cp -139 wdl 62 378 559 pv e4e5 h6g5 e5f6 d8f6 g1h1 f6d4 c1d2 d7f6 f4g5 f6g4 d1e1 g4e3 e2a6 c8f5 d2e3 e8e3 a6e2 a8e8 e1f2 e8e7 e2b5 d4g4 f2f4 g4f4 f1f4 g7c3 b2c3 e3c3 a1f1 e7e4
info  depth 24 seldepth 42 time 67846 nodes 59290542 nps 873885 hashfull 175 score cp -139 wdl 53 396 550 pv e4e5 h6g5 e5f6 d8f6 g1h1 f6d4 c1d2 d7f6 f4g5 f6g4 d1e1 g4e3 e2a6 c8f5 d2e3 e8e3 a6e2 a8e8 e1f2 e8e7 e2b5 d4g4 f2f4 g4f4 f1f4 g7c3 b2c3 e3c3 h1g1 e7e4 a1f1 e4f4 f1f4 c3c2
info  depth 25 seldepth 47 time 110625 nodes 96873100 nps 875681 hashfull 271 score cp -125 wdl 71 402 526 pv g5e6 f7e6 d5e6 d7b6 f4f5 d6d5 d1d3 f6e4 c3e4 d5e4 d3d8 e8d8 f5f6 c8e6 f6g7 g8g7 c1e3 e6c4 e2c4 b6c4 e3c5 a8c8 b2b4 b7b6 c5e7 d8d7 e7f6 g7f7 a1e1 c4d2 f1f4 c8c4
info  depth 26 seldepth 47 time 191142 nodes 169374135 nps 886112 hashfull 423 score cp -142 wdl 53 387 558 pv g5e6 f7e6 d5e6 d7b6 f4f5 d6d5 d1d3 f6e4 c3e4 d5e4 d3d8 e8d8 f5f6 c8e6 f6g7 g8g7 f1f4 b6d5 f4e4 e6f5 e4c4 a8c8 a2a4 d8e8 e2f3 b7b5 a4b5 a6b5 a1a7 g7f6 c1h6 b5c4 f3d5 f5e6 d5e4 c8d8 h6g7 f6g5