Re: 87% of the poll voted that SF will win Tcec Sufi 19.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:57 pm
People talked too soon in this thread. SF is up by +6 points now on TCEC.
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After 81 games:nabildanial wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:57 pm People talked too soon in this thread. SF is up by +6 points now on TCEC.
7:1 pairwise wins for Stockfish with 33 drawn pairs of games. A pretty decisive result.peter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:17 pmAfter 81 games:nabildanial wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:57 pm People talked too soon in this thread. SF is up by +6 points now on TCEC.
Wins = 14
Draws = 59
Losses = 8
Av.Op. Elo = 3500
Result : 43.5/81 (+14,=59,-8)
Perf. : 53.7 %
Margins :
68 % : (+ 2.9,- 2.8 %) -> [ 50.9, 56.6 %]
95 % : (+ 5.7,- 5.6 %) -> [ 48.1, 59.4 %]
99.7 % : (+ 8.6,- 8.4 %) -> [ 45.3, 62.3 %]
Elo : 3526
Margins :
68 % : (+ 20,- 20) -> [3506,3546]
95 % : (+ 40,- 39) -> [3487,3566]
99.7 % : (+ 62,- 59) -> [3467,3587]
Could you clarify what you mean by this?Daniel Shawul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pm It has been clear for sometime now that the unbalanced book is very unfair to Lc0.
TCEC does it for the sake of entertainment, but drawing any conclusions from it doesn't make any sense.
This SuFi and last one have been all about who can convert better given a position with a +1 advantage.
If every season is going to be like this, I guess there is no point watching TCEC SuFi.
It's only unfair when Lc0 is losing. I can't see why it's unfair when both engines are forced to play the same opening both sides.Daniel Shawul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pmIt has been clear for sometime now that the unbalanced book is very unfair to Lc0.
TCEC does it for the sake of entertainment, but drawing any conclusions from it doesn't make any sense.
It has been the case since forever, it's not only for these past 2 seasons. I've heard the same exact argument from the losing side, whether it's SF, Komodo, Leela or Houdini fans. Same ol' story.Daniel Shawul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pmThis SuFi and last one have been all about who can convert better given a position with a +1 advantage.
I am surprized you need clarification for this but here it goes.jorose wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:23 pmCould you clarify what you mean by this?Daniel Shawul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pm It has been clear for sometime now that the unbalanced book is very unfair to Lc0.
TCEC does it for the sake of entertainment, but drawing any conclusions from it doesn't make any sense.
This SuFi and last one have been all about who can convert better given a position with a +1 advantage.
If every season is going to be like this, I guess there is no point watching TCEC SuFi.
I just took a look at the first 10 openings (20 games) and I don't think they are particularly unbalanced. In fact, I play several of those openings myself. The only ones I find somewhat odd are the French with Ng8 and KGA with Nc3.
Most of the lines are theoretically very well established and see a decent amount of play.I'm not sure where this notion comes from that TCEC has unbalanced openings this season in particular.
I also don't know what such fans want to see, would they prefer even less decisive games?
SF may well be superior to Lc0 but this unbalanced openings prove nothing.52 - +1.31
54 - +1.06
56 - +1.19
58 - +0.80
60 - +1.14
62 - +1.17
64 - +1.17
66 - +1.12
68 - +1.20
70 - +0.80
72 - -0.93
74 - +0.70
76 - +0.66
78 - +1.38
80 - +1.05
82 - +0.83
"I'm not sure where this notion comes from that TCEC has unbalanced openings this season in particular."jorose wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:23 pmCould you clarify what you mean by this?Daniel Shawul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pm It has been clear for sometime now that the unbalanced book is very unfair to Lc0.
TCEC does it for the sake of entertainment, but drawing any conclusions from it doesn't make any sense.
This SuFi and last one have been all about who can convert better given a position with a +1 advantage.
If every season is going to be like this, I guess there is no point watching TCEC SuFi.
I just took a look at the first 10 openings (20 games) and I don't think they are particularly unbalanced. In fact, I play several of those openings myself. The only ones I find somewhat odd are the French with Ng8 and KGA with Nc3.
Most of the lines are theoretically very well established and see a decent amount of play.I'm not sure where this notion comes from that TCEC has unbalanced openings this season in particular.
I also don't know what such fans want to see, would they prefer even less decisive games?
It is true, though. It's a competition that tries to determine which engine is best at defending nearly lost positions on hardware you can't afford. Evidently, it's a form of entertainment many people enjoy, but it's not chess as it's usually played, and it's doubtful that any interesting conclusions can be made from the match results.nabildanial wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:41 pmIt has been the case since forever, it's not only for these past 2 seasons. I've heard the same exact argument from the losing side, whether it's SF, Komodo, Leela or Houdini fans. Same ol' story.