A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Frank Quisinsky · Post by **Frank Quisinsky** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:56 pm

Hi there,

different ways for looking in the gaming phases.

- pieces on board - end position - (02-06, 07-12, 13-32)
- move number below mate (for an example: Games below 60, 80, 100, 300 moves)

Elo calculation programs helps us to see strengths & weaknesses of engines to the gaming phases (rough is enough).

Examples from the still running FCP Tourney-2020 with pieces on board:
After round 22 of 50 (880 games per engine, 41 participant engines).
Endposition without resign mode with 02-06 pieces on board ... endgame
Endposition without resign mode with 07-12 pieces on board ... late middlgeame, transposition into endgame
Endposition without resgin mode with 13-32 pieces on board ... middlegame

Let's go with Ordo 1.2.6 (Elo average 3035)

02-06 pieces on board ...

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3338.30    366    82.4  239   125     2   301.5   34.2  31.75  3038.31  24.10   38.2
   2 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3261.08    374    75.5  207   151    16   282.5   40.4  29.29  3040.22  24.20   38.4
   3 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3248.65    409    74.8  213   186    10   306.0   45.5  27.28  3035.97  24.25   39.0
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3202.44    444    70.0  197   228    19   311.0   51.4  25.29  3036.23  24.38   38.8
   5 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3199.45    411    70.9  209   165    37   291.5   40.1  27.43  3027.03  24.10   39.1
   6 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3176.43    413    68.5  192   182    39   283.0   44.1  26.19  3026.62  24.16   38.7
   7 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3170.80    492    68.4  222   229    41   336.5   46.5  23.50  3019.79  24.12   39.1
   8 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3155.69    460    65.9  199   208    53   303.0   45.2  24.75  3028.89  24.12   39.2
   9 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3155.42    391    64.2  167   168    56   251.0   43.0  26.57  3037.79  24.24   38.6
  10 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3139.04    456    64.5  208   172    76   294.0   37.7  24.19  3025.74  24.08   38.8
  11 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3130.62    464    62.8  188   207    69   291.5   44.6  23.56  3030.87  24.21   39.3
  12 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3106.98    435    58.6  158   194    83   255.0   44.6  24.46  3040.92  24.35   39.0
  13 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3100.05    430    58.5  143   217    70   251.5   50.5  24.32  3033.23  24.13   38.5
  14 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3096.32    423    58.6  161   174    88   248.0   41.1  24.49  3025.12  24.20   39.3
  15 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3066.37    439    52.8  122   220    97   232.0   50.1  23.73  3043.93  24.38   38.5
  16 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3049.37    412    51.2  118   186   108   211.0   45.1  23.14  3040.42  24.33   39.0
  17 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3047.33    456    53.2  132   221   103   242.5   48.5  23.73  3024.06  24.12   38.8
  18 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3042.70    416    51.8  115   201   100   215.5   48.3  23.47  3030.68  24.27   39.2
  19 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3036.21    444    50.3  125   197   122   223.5   44.4  23.58  3037.15  24.19   38.7
  20 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  3022.78    428    51.5  123   195   110   220.5   45.6  23.11  3017.06  24.08   38.4
  21 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2990.01    425    45.1   92   199   134   191.5   46.8  24.25  3027.38  24.15   38.8
  22 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2984.59    401    44.5   93   171   137   178.5   42.6  25.00  3033.26  24.19   38.9
  23 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  2976.66    427    43.9   88   199   140   187.5   46.6  23.79  3024.17  24.13   38.8
  24 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2975.10    442    42.6   91   195   156   188.5   44.1  22.47  3033.10  24.23   38.5
  25 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2973.34    447    43.6  110   170   167   195.0   38.0  22.43  3027.99  24.22   39.0
  26 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2969.30    408    44.9   85   196   127   183.0   48.0  24.36  3015.49  24.01   38.3
  27 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2962.53    447    41.4   85   200   162   185.0   44.7  23.19  3034.18  24.28   39.3
  28 Chiron 4 x64                    :  2958.98    472    40.9   87   212   173   193.0   44.9  22.83  3031.51  24.21   39.1
  29 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  2954.69    461    39.4   78   207   176   181.5   44.9  22.97  3039.04  24.31   39.1
  30 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2951.14    493    40.9   84   235   174   201.5   47.7  22.35  3028.51  24.21   39.2
  31 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  2943.12    443    37.7   76   182   185   167.0   41.1  22.71  3044.87  24.32   39.1
  32 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2939.67    401    40.1   81   160   160   161.0   39.9  24.51  3016.31  23.98   38.4
  33 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2938.64    479    38.4   81   206   192   184.0   43.0  22.38  3035.26  24.26   39.1
  34 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2933.37    527    38.5   82   242   203   203.0   45.9  22.41  3027.89  24.15   39.0
  35 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2929.32    427    38.5   74   181   172   164.5   42.4  23.57  3023.08  24.01   38.5
  36 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2929.27    437    37.9   69   193   175   165.5   44.2  24.22  3027.93  24.18   39.0
  37 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2915.57    474    35.1   73   187   214   166.5   39.5  22.16  3034.91  24.26   39.2
  38 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2906.55    478    34.5   58   214   206   165.0   44.8  22.22  3030.16  24.12   39.1
  39 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2890.16    462    34.0   61   192   209   157.0   41.6  24.06  3028.45  24.11   38.7
  40 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2849.46    440    28.8   35   183   222   126.5   41.6  24.79  3023.53  23.98   38.7
  41 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2817.47    474    24.9   38   160   276   118.0   33.8  25.12  3033.07  24.15   38.8

White advantage = 53.08 +/- 2.87
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 53.55 % +/- 0.64

07-12 pieces on board ...

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   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3400.38    373    88.6  289    83     1   330.5   22.3  39.48  3006.89  27.90   38.5
   2 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3324.49    355    84.1  246   105     4   298.5   29.6  33.82  3003.69  27.95   38.0
   3 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3307.09    369    82.7  242   126     1   305.0   34.1  32.32  3005.85  27.88   38.4
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3262.63    296    78.7  179   108     9   233.0   36.5  34.36  3008.18  28.01   37.4
   5 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3170.04    314    67.8  135   156    23   213.0   49.7  27.86  3022.81  28.45   38.0
   6 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3169.82    306    68.6  140   140    26   210.0   45.8  28.72  3016.73  28.26   37.7
   7 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3161.04    302    67.9  122   166    14   205.0   55.0  28.84  3014.34  28.08   38.3
   8 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3149.62    330    64.4  133   159    38   212.5   48.2  27.59  3033.33  28.36   38.5
   9 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3148.94    310    64.7  123   155    32   200.5   50.0  28.18  3030.57  28.49   38.3
  10 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3148.24    321    66.2  124   177    20   212.5   55.1  27.51  3020.47  28.05   37.3
  11 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3138.56    285    63.5  107   148    30   181.0   51.9  27.85  3025.83  28.28   38.1
  12 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3126.33    301    63.0  114   151    36   189.5   50.2  27.33  3024.88  28.17   37.9
  13 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3111.14    268    59.5   92   135    41   159.5   50.4  29.33  3040.78  28.54   37.6
  14 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3100.85    335    58.2  113   164    58   195.0   49.0  25.83  3032.29  28.44   38.6
  15 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3094.14    285    57.7   91   147    47   164.5   51.6  27.89  3034.66  28.48   37.9
  16 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3090.15    309    59.2  103   160    46   183.0   51.8  27.36  3020.98  28.47   37.8
  17 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3089.70    299    57.7   92   161    46   172.5   53.8  27.27  3035.48  28.42   38.1
  18 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  3030.27    304    51.3   76   160    68   156.0   52.6  26.95  3022.78  28.38   38.4
  19 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3023.46    303    48.8   77   142    84   148.0   46.9  26.42  3037.35  28.62   37.7
  20 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3011.62    292    45.9   62   144    86   134.0   49.3  26.85  3048.57  28.48   38.3
  21 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  3007.09    286    46.9   67   134    85   134.0   46.9  27.10  3038.66  28.39   38.5
  22 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2995.93    328    44.2   62   166   100   145.0   50.6  26.28  3048.58  28.71   37.5
  23 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  2971.41    305    40.3   56   134   115   123.0   43.9  26.70  3052.65  28.48   37.7
  24 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2967.50    288    42.0   50   142    96   121.0   49.3  26.79  3041.92  28.51   38.5
  25 Chiron 4 x64                    :  2960.21    296    39.4   44   145   107   116.5   49.0  26.62  3054.21  28.80   38.0
  26 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2957.25    319    36.7   38   158   123   117.0   49.5  27.17  3065.78  28.50   37.2
  27 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  2956.98    316    39.1   40   167   109   123.5   52.8  27.06  3052.66  28.43   38.2
  28 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2951.87    303    39.1   45   147   111   118.5   48.5  27.00  3042.98  28.41   37.8
  29 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2950.67    355    39.2   67   144   144   139.0   40.6  24.74  3040.77  28.44   38.9
  30 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2948.92    285    37.0   49   113   123   105.5   39.6  29.33  3057.52  28.62   37.3
  31 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2933.13    322    37.0   35   168   119   119.0   52.2  26.33  3048.66  28.60   38.1
  32 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2923.43    313    35.1   42   136   135   110.0   43.5  27.15  3048.81  28.42   38.4
  33 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2916.24    279    33.7   38   112   129    94.0   40.1  28.66  3059.14  28.62   37.8
  34 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2913.96    301    33.4   38   125   138   100.5   41.5  26.92  3053.71  28.42   37.9
  35 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2899.34    274    29.9   27   110   137    82.0   40.1  29.39  3063.89  28.53   37.5
  36 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2881.25    309    29.6   34   115   160    91.5   37.2  27.97  3056.70  28.53   38.0
  37 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2874.88    316    29.6   31   125   160    93.5   39.6  27.01  3051.51  28.51   38.3
  38 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2863.77    305    28.2   19   134   152    86.0   43.9  28.92  3049.74  28.42   38.0
  39 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2858.29    284    27.1   18   118   148    77.0   41.5  31.21  3060.90  28.45   37.2
  40 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2829.12    373    25.3   32   125   216    94.5   33.5  27.26  3053.70  28.46   38.6
  41 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2815.24    320    22.7   19   107   194    72.5   33.4  30.51  3064.14  28.55   37.1

White advantage = 54.23 +/- 3.26
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 62.51 % +/- 0.85

13-32 pieces on board ...

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   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3195.21    141    71.6   61    80     0   101.0   56.7  35.37  3029.33  21.77   36.3
   2 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3150.83    116    64.2   33    83     0    74.5   71.6  30.29  3044.65  21.90   31.7
   3 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3137.05    137    63.1   36   101     0    86.5   73.7  27.49  3037.82  22.50   33.7
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3089.39    140    57.5   21   119     0    80.5   85.0  21.70  3033.33  21.46   34.3
   5 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3075.38    168    56.0   21   146     1    94.0   86.9  19.15  3033.00  20.92   36.4
   6 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3073.39    110    54.1    9   101     0    59.5   91.8  21.79  3042.15  21.39   33.5
   7 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3073.34    163    54.0   15   146     2    88.0   89.6  18.05  3042.80  21.85   35.6
   8 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3072.63    153    54.2   13   140     0    83.0   91.5  17.79  3040.11  21.35   35.3
   9 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3066.34    133    56.4   20   110     3    75.0   82.7  20.99  3025.20  21.18   36.0
  10 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3065.81    144    54.9   17   124     3    79.0   86.1  19.70  3028.45  21.61   35.4
  11 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3062.74    141    53.5   11   129     1    75.5   91.5  18.26  3037.06  21.53   34.8
  12 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3060.32    131    53.1    8   123     0    69.5   93.9  18.18  3039.45  21.10   34.4
  13 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  3059.73    133    53.4   13   116     4    71.0   87.2  19.20  3035.58  21.27   35.6
  14 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3059.72    139    54.0   13   124     2    75.0   89.2  19.74  3032.81  21.80   34.9
  15 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3057.91    133    53.4   10   122     1    71.0   91.7  18.58  3032.49  20.70   34.4
  16 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3054.90    120    51.3    8   107     5    61.5   89.2  18.95  3044.95  20.75   31.2
  17 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3053.20    158    52.2    9   147     2    82.5   93.0  16.87  3038.68  21.27   34.7
  18 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3051.82    134    52.2    9   122     3    70.0   91.0  18.94  3035.04  21.48   34.4
  19 Chiron 4 x64                    :  3044.31    112    52.7   11    96     5    59.0   85.7  20.72  3027.05  21.51   35.1
  20 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  3032.84    110    50.9    5   102     3    56.0   92.7  20.02  3028.94  20.71   32.3
  21 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  3030.76    133    50.0    5   123     5    66.5   92.5  18.25  3032.28  21.15   35.2
  22 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3030.30    139    48.6    2   131     6    67.5   94.2  17.65  3038.14  21.51   34.3
  23 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  3025.28    124    48.4    7   106    11    60.0   85.5  19.38  3036.27  21.47   34.0
  24 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3021.34    132    47.3    1   123     8    62.5   93.2  18.64  3040.97  21.05   32.6
  25 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  3017.62    100    48.5    4    89     7    48.5   89.0  21.34  3027.34  21.49   29.1
  26 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  3011.67    137    46.7    1   126    10    64.0   92.0  19.44  3036.90  22.11   35.7
  27 Critter 1.6a x64                :  3010.03    130    46.9    7   108    15    61.0   83.1  19.19  3033.60  21.13   33.9
  28 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  3008.32    118    46.2    2   105    11    54.5   89.0  20.92  3035.97  21.25   34.0
  29 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  3002.02    153    44.4    3   130    20    68.0   85.0  18.87  3041.82  22.16   35.6
  30 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2997.29     68    44.1    2    56    10    30.0   82.4  29.78  3041.57  21.41   28.2
  31 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2997.07    133    44.4    1   116    16    59.0   87.2  19.75  3039.78  21.01   34.1
  32 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2996.72    123    45.5    5   102    16    56.0   82.9  20.01  3031.58  21.67   34.7
  33 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2991.37    122    44.3    0   108    14    54.0   88.5  22.06  3032.87  21.03   32.4
  34 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2990.19    120    43.3    2   100    18    52.0   83.3  23.29  3042.09  21.43   34.5
  35 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2988.46    134    44.0    2   114    18    59.0   85.1  19.92  3034.11  21.51   36.7
  36 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2986.69    120    42.9    5    93    22    51.5   77.5  23.05  3037.43  21.96   34.3
  37 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2981.30     82    40.9    1    65    16    33.5   79.3  30.05  3047.29  20.80   32.1
  38 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  2969.12    147    39.1    1   113    33    57.5   76.9  23.81  3046.49  20.86   33.2
  39 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2964.71    137    39.1    3   101    33    53.5   73.7  24.08  3046.32  21.32   33.6
  40 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2945.23    106    35.4    3    69    34    37.5   65.1  31.33  3052.50  21.72   30.2
  41 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2932.66    144    35.4    2    98    44    51.0   68.1  26.94  3039.57  21.17   35.4

White advantage = 17.26 +/- 2.55
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 100.00 % +/- 0.56

I know how strong is Wasp with many pieces on board and lesser pieces on board.
Statistic is perfect for Wasp and each of the other engines.

We can see rough that with statistic "pieces on board" and with the statistic "mate below x moves" the strength & weaknesses.

The question is ...
What is more exactly?
Elo isn't important only the comparsion for engines with lesser pieces on board in 3 steps.

Sure that Klaus Wlotzka will added it in the Excel statistic files to the still running tournament.

Best
Frank

For Wasp 4.00 ...
Place 13 Middlgemage
Place 18 Transposition into endgame / late middlegame
Place 31 Endgame

If we create now a rating list we can added such information.
So we have a little bit more as a boring Elo without any details.
That's an interesting point we try to make with Excel.

Frank Quisinsky · Post by **Frank Quisinsky** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:22 pm

Hi there,

and here the same with move-number:

FCP Tourney-2020 after round 22 of 50
880 games per engines
3035 Elo average
All with Ordo 1.2.6

Games ended with moves number 20-59 ...

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3268.66    190    80.5  116    74     0   153.0   38.9  38.48  3010.98  25.46   34.5
   2 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3198.19    177    70.6   73   104     0   125.0   58.8  28.72  3033.92  25.30   36.4
   3 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3167.90    214    67.5   75   139     0   144.5   65.0  24.55  3027.40  26.00   37.0
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3154.92    140    67.9   50    90     0    95.0   64.3  29.78  3012.57  25.45   34.5
   5 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3127.96    191    62.8   51   138     2   120.0   72.3  24.94  3031.07  25.79   35.6
   6 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3114.88    164    61.6   38   126     0   101.0   76.8  24.09  3027.43  25.19   37.2
   7 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3106.93    155    60.3   33   121     1    93.5   78.1  24.36  3028.22  25.75   37.0
   8 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3103.75    177    59.6   41   129     7   105.5   72.9  23.86  3029.79  25.76   37.5
   9 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3103.42    217    61.3   49   168     0   133.0   77.4  21.43  3023.32  24.88   35.8
  10 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3102.15    157    60.2   43   103    11    94.5   65.6  24.59  3026.11  25.84   36.3
  11 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3099.43    156    59.9   35   117     4    93.5   75.0  24.32  3024.52  25.28   33.7
  12 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3093.54    165    57.3   26   137     2    94.5   83.0  22.91  3034.59  25.20   35.0
  13 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3092.79    157    59.9   32   124     1    94.0   79.0  24.03  3020.35  25.24   35.1
  14 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3089.58    119    57.6   23    91     5    68.5   76.5  27.31  3036.87  25.43   33.0
  15 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3082.16    173    57.5   26   147     0    99.5   85.0  21.62  3024.32  25.18   37.1
  16 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  3064.28    142    54.6   19   117     6    77.5   82.4  22.41  3030.76  25.01   35.4
  17 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3048.21    159    51.6   15   134    10    82.0   84.3  22.30  3033.78  25.63   35.3
  18 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3045.22    159    51.3   12   139     8    81.5   87.4  21.79  3035.49  25.74   36.5
  19 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3044.67    154    52.3   22   117    15    80.5   76.0  22.89  3031.60  25.25   34.4
  20 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  3037.35    159    52.5   21   125    13    83.5   78.6  22.48  3022.13  25.02   34.8
  21 Chiron 4 x64                    :  3037.32    137    51.8   21   100    16    71.0   73.0  23.90  3027.40  25.72   33.1
  22 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3034.26    142    47.2   12   110    20    67.0   77.5  22.60  3050.51  24.96   31.2
  23 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  3029.10    135    49.6   11   112    12    67.0   83.0  23.26  3036.22  25.30   35.1
  24 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2999.25    170    44.4    6   139    25    75.5   81.8  22.25  3042.23  25.12   36.3
  25 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2987.78    143    42.7    9   104    30    61.0   72.7  25.15  3045.52  24.94   32.8
  26 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2986.52    136    42.6   10    96    30    58.0   70.6  24.84  3040.77  25.68   33.7
  27 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  2986.05    183    42.3    6   143    34    77.5   78.1  22.52  3048.08  25.54   36.1
  28 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2983.27    142    40.5    6   103    33    57.5   72.5  24.53  3054.72  25.15   34.8
  29 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2981.73    137    39.8    9    91    37    54.5   66.4  26.67  3058.65  26.00   32.6
  30 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2976.58    146    38.7    3   107    36    56.5   73.3  25.67  3066.08  25.52   33.2
  31 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  2975.07    184    38.6   10   122    52    71.0   66.3  22.75  3060.47  25.08   35.1
  32 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2973.04    149    41.3   11   101    37    61.5   67.8  25.54  3042.90  25.51   36.0
  33 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2965.82     79    37.3    8    43    28    29.5   54.4  35.33  3062.34  25.22   29.6
  34 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2954.92    144    38.5    4   103    37    55.5   71.5  25.99  3048.27  25.46   33.5
  35 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2949.96    169    36.1   10   102    57    61.0   60.4  24.95  3052.23  25.39   35.0
  36 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2949.85    109    34.4    2    71    36    37.5   65.1  32.28  3066.64  25.51   31.5
  37 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2930.58    168    34.2    5   105    58    57.5   62.5  26.05  3050.82  24.95   34.9
  38 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2918.18    163    32.8    6    95    62    53.5   58.3  27.77  3055.00  25.39   34.4
  39 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2912.75    182    33.0    3   114    65    60.0   62.6  25.11  3049.31  25.06   35.8
  40 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2881.41    176    27.0    3    89    84    47.5   50.6  29.76  3061.17  25.13   36.3
  41 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2875.57    165    25.5    6    72    87    42.0   43.6  33.02  3066.11  25.07   32.9

White advantage = 42.51 +/- 3.02
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 100.00 % +/- 1.13

Games ended with move numer 60-79 ...

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3492.38    296    92.7  254    41     1   274.5   13.9  55.36  2997.30  34.50   37.8
   2 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3352.82    310    85.3  224    81     5   264.5   26.1  39.64  2997.52  34.84   37.3
   3 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3327.62    317    83.8  214   103     0   265.5   32.5  38.76  2992.94  34.82   37.4
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3302.94    231    82.9  161    61     9   191.5   26.4  43.33  2990.90  34.88   36.4
   5 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3250.34    265    77.2  160    89    16   204.5   33.6  37.25  3003.77  34.64   37.7
   6 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3218.70    250    74.4  138    96    16   186.0   38.4  38.30  3004.01  34.99   38.0
   7 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3194.97    283    69.8  143   109    31   197.5   38.5  34.23  3025.01  35.60   37.6
   8 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3174.79    270    70.0  132   114    24   189.0   42.2  34.78  3013.03  34.96   37.9
   9 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3171.37    312    69.1  146   139    27   215.5   44.6  32.72  3012.04  35.14   38.0
  10 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3158.85    225    66.2  110    78    37   149.0   34.7  37.46  3017.64  35.31   35.7
  11 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3156.46    243    66.7  116    92    35   162.0   37.9  36.19  3018.47  35.23   37.9
  12 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3139.23    252    61.9  100   112    40   156.0   44.4  34.09  3040.69  35.24   38.2
  13 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3128.90    279    63.1  116   120    43   176.0   43.0  32.51  3023.37  35.41   36.5
  14 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3118.26    231    61.7   94    97    40   142.5   42.0  35.34  3023.58  35.54   37.8
  15 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3114.43    264    61.2  108   107    49   161.5   40.5  34.34  3028.22  35.61   36.7
  16 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3082.41    256    56.1   94    99    63   143.5   38.7  31.86  3032.84  35.45   38.4
  17 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3066.54    231    54.3   84    83    64   125.5   35.9  35.16  3032.83  35.38   36.6
  18 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3041.84    258    49.0   74   105    79   126.5   40.7  32.30  3050.56  35.73   37.0
  19 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  3023.09    270    48.1   84    92    94   130.0   34.1  30.56  3043.14  35.64   38.1
  20 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3022.28    249    48.8   69   105    75   121.5   42.2  32.70  3038.63  35.47   37.9
  21 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  2986.25    241    44.8   70    76    95   108.0   31.5  34.45  3034.71  35.48   38.0
  22 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2983.85    241    40.9   55    87    99    98.5   36.1  33.91  3072.58  36.02   37.2
  23 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  2953.14    250    40.8   59    86   105   102.0   34.4  34.56  3034.33  35.18   37.2
  24 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2947.92    294    38.4   57   112   125   113.0   38.1  30.83  3054.17  35.48   38.1
  25 Chiron 4 x64                    :  2944.53    248    39.1   46   102   100    97.0   41.1  35.03  3052.80  35.68   38.4
  26 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2940.79    254    38.4   46   103   105    97.5   40.6  33.82  3052.45  35.51   37.8
  27 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2937.97    237    38.6   57    69   111    91.5   29.1  35.23  3045.72  35.36   37.8
  28 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2937.40    246    37.2   40   103   103    91.5   41.9  34.09  3046.81  35.18   38.1
  29 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2930.20    233    37.1   51    71   111    86.5   30.5  36.01  3050.33  35.45   37.0
  30 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2929.97    293    37.0   46   125   122   108.5   42.7  31.73  3052.32  35.65   38.1
  31 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  2915.41    238    33.6   27   106   105    80.0   44.5  35.06  3061.20  35.68   37.3
  32 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2901.86    275    34.4   49    91   135    94.5   33.1  31.22  3042.22  35.57   38.2
  33 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2878.35    284    31.9   42    97   145    90.5   34.2  32.73  3045.62  35.66   38.2
  34 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2872.08    244    28.7   32    76   136    70.0   31.1  36.66  3073.37  35.85   36.7
  35 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2864.83    260    28.7   35    79   146    74.5   30.4  35.56  3061.26  35.67   38.0
  36 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2863.81    254    28.9   29    89   136    73.5   35.0  34.98  3059.26  35.57   37.4
  37 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2854.24    295    28.3   38    91   166    83.5   30.8  32.51  3050.20  35.51   37.6
  38 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2826.78    275    24.0   22    88   165    66.0   32.0  36.25  3065.10  35.47   37.8
  39 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2826.02    258    25.6   36    60   162    66.0   23.3  37.15  3052.93  35.72   37.6
  40 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2814.14    286    22.9   34    63   189    65.5   22.0  35.01  3072.82  35.78   37.7
  41 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2787.28    304    19.9   15    91   198    60.5   29.9  36.82  3069.18  35.64   37.7

White advantage = 71.43 +/- 4.04
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 51.41 % +/- 0.93

Games ended with move number 80-99

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3432.82    219    86.8  162    56     1   190.0   25.6  52.05  3054.72  40.36   37.0
   2 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3361.08    200    83.3  141    51     8   166.5   25.5  48.77  3033.55  40.44   37.8
   3 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3319.87    195    80.8  129    57     9   157.5   29.2  46.25  3033.93  40.29   37.0
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3259.19    184    74.7  105    65    14   137.5   35.3  46.20  3036.06  40.81   37.4
   5 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3205.57    214    70.8  113    77    24   151.5   36.0  40.74  3021.55  40.25   36.3
   6 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3202.98    246    70.7  129    90    27   174.0   36.6  37.95  3026.82  40.27   37.6
   7 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3184.51    207    68.8  108    69    30   142.5   33.3  42.46  3024.99  40.49   37.3
   8 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3172.12    211    65.4   94    88    29   138.0   41.7  39.26  3035.44  40.18   37.3
   9 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3171.01    217    65.4  104    76    37   142.0   35.0  41.07  3038.26  40.74   36.7
  10 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3143.58    233    64.8  103    96    34   151.0   41.2  38.42  3024.57  40.32   37.5
  11 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3142.64    204    63.2   98    62    44   129.0   30.4  40.26  3030.16  40.83   38.1
  12 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3140.76    215    62.8   98    74    43   135.0   34.4  39.63  3035.19  40.30   36.8
  13 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3127.53    223    62.6  104    71    48   139.5   31.8  38.66  3031.30  40.54   37.2
  14 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3100.14    205    58.3   77    85    43   119.5   41.5  40.10  3035.67  40.54   36.9
  15 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3098.22    204    56.6   69    93    42   115.5   45.6  40.33  3045.65  40.42   37.7
  16 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3085.16    223    53.6   82    75    66   119.5   33.6  37.78  3056.20  40.57   37.3
  17 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3042.49    214    54.0   77    77    60   115.5   36.0  38.61  3018.45  40.32   37.1
  18 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3036.86    205    52.7   73    70    62   108.0   34.1  39.26  3015.94  40.35   37.0
  19 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  3007.44    193    50.5   70    55    68    97.5   28.5  39.27  3020.57  40.34   35.7
  20 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  2995.32    215    44.7   63    66    86    96.0   30.7  37.39  3041.48  40.68   38.1
  21 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  2985.33    218    45.4   63    72    83    99.0   33.0  37.68  3025.51  40.32   37.7
  22 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2982.35    177    47.5   61    46    70    84.0   26.0  43.63  3009.65  40.36   36.1
  23 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2971.28    188    42.0   47    64    77    79.0   34.0  41.13  3037.47  40.59   36.3
  24 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2967.60    225    42.0   57    75    93    94.5   33.3  37.35  3034.88  40.76   37.1
  25 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2961.95    232    41.2   50    91    91    95.5   39.2  38.27  3034.20  40.48   38.6
  26 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  2958.94    193    42.7   49    67    77    82.5   34.7  40.34  3023.35  40.30   37.1
  27 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  2946.03    233    38.0   50    77   106    88.5   33.0  37.20  3046.86  40.59   38.0
  28 Chiron 4 x64                    :  2942.00    221    38.0   49    70   102    84.0   31.7  38.54  3048.51  40.67   36.9
  29 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  2933.53    216    36.3   43    71   102    78.5   32.9  38.31  3048.78  40.48   38.3
  30 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2925.44    223    36.3   43    76   104    81.0   34.1  37.06  3043.88  40.54   37.9
  31 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2924.41    215    36.3   41    74   100    78.0   34.4  38.85  3042.46  40.40   37.7
  32 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2924.19    234    36.8   49    74   111    86.0   31.6  37.30  3040.23  40.37   37.3
  33 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2914.97    205    37.1   36    80    89    76.0   39.0  39.07  3030.05  40.66   36.6
  34 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2914.42    224    35.0   45    67   112    78.5   29.9  37.72  3041.24  40.45   37.1
  35 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2907.96    196    35.5   36    67    93    69.5   34.2  39.97  3032.19  40.14   35.6
  36 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2890.92    215    32.3   28    83   104    69.5   38.6  39.31  3047.39  40.36   36.7
  37 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2887.13    218    32.8   40    63   115    71.5   28.9  40.27  3035.86  40.34   37.5
  38 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  2881.31    185    36.2   39    56    90    67.0   30.3  41.24  3006.98  40.13   36.3
  39 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2877.29    191    31.4   29    62   100    60.0   32.5  44.48  3036.93  40.36   37.1
  40 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2803.12    207    24.6   23    56   128    51.0   27.1  42.78  3032.46  40.40   36.9
  41 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2705.55    225    15.6   12    46   167    35.0   20.4  47.43  3042.65  40.30   36.7

White advantage = 58.94 +/- 4.73
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 43.07 % +/- 0.90

Games ended with move number 100-300

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
   1 Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64            :  3177.50    161    66.8   57   101     3   107.5   62.7  32.35  3050.27  23.48   32.8
   2 Stockfish 11 BMI2 x64           :  3162.14    175    66.0   57   117     1   115.5   66.9  32.12  3038.38  23.57   34.6
   3 Houdini 6.03 Pro x64            :  3160.42    186    65.6   64   116     6   122.0   62.4  30.22  3043.66  23.48   36.1
   4 Ethereal 12.25 PEXT x64         :  3130.44    325    61.7   81   239     5   200.5   73.5  22.21  3043.26  24.09   37.4
   5 Shredder 13 x64                 :  3117.32    234    61.1   74   138    22   143.0   59.0  25.71  3034.01  23.19   35.5
   6 Fire 7.1 POP x64                :  3101.85    251    58.6   63   168    20   147.0   66.9  23.53  3040.23  23.82   36.6
   7 Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64             :  3092.42    200    56.8   47   133    20   113.5   66.5  26.35  3041.09  23.55   36.8
   8 SlowChess BC 2.2 x64            :  3092.34    217    56.5   45   155    17   122.5   71.4  25.74  3043.19  23.67   36.3
   9 rofChade 2.3 BMI x64            :  3089.16    290    57.2   60   212    18   166.0   73.1  21.66  3035.62  23.64   37.9
  10 Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64              :  3085.50    247    56.1   57   163    27   138.5   66.0  22.23  3041.28  23.44   37.0
  11 RubiChess 1.7.3 x64             :  3080.66    261    57.1   58   182    21   149.0   69.7  22.55  3030.90  23.35   37.6
  12 Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64            :  3065.10    253    55.1   53   173    27   139.5   68.4  23.03  3029.20  23.24   37.0
  13 Booot 6.4 POP x64               :  3061.04    140    50.7   23    96    21    71.0   68.6  30.24  3053.72  23.71   32.1
  14 Defenchess 2.2 POP x64          :  3060.04    289    53.5   53   203    33   154.5   70.2  21.02  3035.08  23.57   37.8
  15 Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x64           :  3051.45    230    51.7   40   158    32   119.0   68.7  23.93  3038.36  23.37   36.8
  16 Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64              :  3047.17    269    52.6   42   199    28   141.5   74.0  21.96  3029.23  23.45   38.1
  17 Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x64          :  3045.14    237    51.1   39   164    34   121.0   69.2  23.28  3036.99  23.31   36.8
  18 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64          :  3030.27    284    50.2   41   203    40   142.5   71.5  21.93  3030.81  23.31   37.9
  19 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  3025.05    240    49.8   39   161    40   119.5   67.1  23.34  3027.66  23.42   37.4
  20 Nirvanachess 2.4 POP x64        :  3016.95    241    49.2   33   171    37   118.5   71.0  22.32  3024.04  22.87   35.8
  21 Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x64           :  3014.29    262    47.5   30   189    43   124.5   72.1  21.49  3034.00  23.25   36.9
  22 Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64            :  3013.66    262    47.5   30   189    43   124.5   72.1  21.94  3030.46  23.33   36.7
  23 Schooner 2.2 SSE x64            :  3011.77    249    45.6   24   179    46   113.5   71.9  23.78  3040.87  23.69   37.0
  24 Equinox 3.30 x64                :  3006.77    295    47.1   36   206    53   139.0   69.8  21.45  3028.49  23.55   38.2
  25 SmarThink 1.98 AVX2 x64         :  3006.05    244    48.6   37   163    44   118.5   66.8  23.61  3018.02  23.08   35.0
  26 Minic 2.33 x64                  :  2999.21    212    46.7   26   146    40    99.0   68.9  24.18  3025.65  23.20   35.8
  27 Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2995.22    239    46.9   27   170    42   112.0   71.1  22.60  3018.74  23.02   34.4
  28 Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64             :  2994.22    248    45.2   32   160    56   112.0   64.5  23.00  3029.65  23.40   37.4
  29 Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64             :  2993.87    229    45.9   27   156    46   105.0   68.1  23.86  3024.17  22.92   35.3
  30 Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x64          :  2993.23    272    45.8   42   165    65   124.5   60.7  21.80  3023.77  23.29   36.6
  31 iCE 4.0 v853 Modern x64         :  2991.89    248    45.2   29   166    53   112.0   66.9  23.54  3028.24  23.46   37.0
  32 Combusken 1.2.0 x64             :  2989.80    231    46.3   23   168    40   107.0   72.7  23.82  3019.46  23.09   35.6
  33 Protector 1.9.0 x64             :  2983.38    237    43.7   28   151    58   103.5   63.7  24.28  3030.49  23.36   37.4
  34 Wasp 4.00 Modern x64            :  2979.88    252    42.9   19   178    55   108.0   70.6  23.46  3033.50  23.32   36.5
  35 Hannibal 1.7 x64                :  2979.86    321    43.8   37   207    77   140.5   64.5  19.85  3026.26  23.34   37.3
  36 Critter 1.6a x64                :  2977.29    258    43.2   25   173    60   111.5   67.1  23.20  3026.61  23.24   36.6
  37 Chiron 4 x64                    :  2977.15    274    42.5   26   181    67   116.5   66.1  21.86  3029.96  23.25   36.9
  38 Demolito 2020-05-14 PEXT x64    :  2968.94    344    41.9   29   230    85   144.0   66.9  19.25  3028.96  23.47   38.5
  39 Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64             :  2963.43    296    41.7   29   189    78   123.5   63.9  21.21  3023.75  22.97   36.0
  40 Monolith 2 PEXT x64             :  2959.74    187    42.5   15   129    43    79.5   69.0  27.26  3016.57  22.92   33.9
  41 Rodent IV 0.22 POP x64          :  2943.37    236    39.2   18   149    69    92.5   63.1  24.72  3023.74  23.04   36.4

White advantage = 16.39 +/- 2.78
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 73.30 % +/- 0.68

The question is:
What it's better ...
"Move number" or "Pieces on board".

Again, rough is good enough (Elo not interesting), only to see which engines have strength in middlegames / endgames.

Best
Frank

jorose · Post by **jorose** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:30 am

Nice data! It is interesting to me that Winter seems inversed. In your second post Winter goes 31->24->22->19, progressively improving ranking the later the game goes.

I am not completely sure how to interpret the data however, perhaps Winter is just slow at closing out games?

Frank Quisinsky · Post by **Frank Quisinsky** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:16 am

Hi,

interpretation isn't easy because we can see strengths and weaknesses very "rough".
But in my humble opinion is "Rough" enough!!

At first:
Let us start to looking in Winter with the results from round 23 out of 50.
The results I posted yesterday are from round 22 out of 50.

Current "normal" ranking in rating list to the still running tournament after round 23 out of 50 with 920 out of 2.000 games.

Code: Select all

 # Player                           :      Elo  Games  Score%   won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%   Error   OppAvg   OppE  MoveAvg
23. Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2985.62    920    43.2   175   444   301   397.0   48.3   14.84  3041.25  15.42     85.7

And with such an information I can nothing see, only a boring rating list.
If I have draw quote and move average ... I can see a little bit more (the reason I added such things).

GAMES WITHOUT RESIGN MODE!!

Winter
Draw quote = 48.3%
Move average = 85,7%

Draw quote of all 18.860 games = 50.2%
Move average of all 18.860 games = 87,49%

More human like is a lesser draw quote.
More computer chess like should be a higher draw quote because engine figthing for more points with "brute force". Waste of time for humans but the way computer chess engines goes "noramly".

Booot, Komodo ... lesser draw quote: Programmers like the human like style (if for a human the position is draw, why he should fighting with "brute force". Maybe from all the human points: Booot is the most balanced chess program I ever test. The programmer of Booot must be a very strong chess player!! But Booot isn't the topic!

Demolito, Hannibal, Ethereal ... higher draw quote, higher move average: Programs like to figthing for each point!

I give top priority for "contempt" the programmers (in German we say: Chefsache).
In my opinion are UCI contempt parameter "unneeded".

Contempt is important for the face of the program.
Komodo must have a very intelligent contempt in sources because clearly under average in move average and clearly under average in draw quote (with Contempt = 0 parameter). Seems to be a little secret to create an intelligent "contempt". Houdini must have such things in sources also.

My opinion:
I like programs try to avoid draw after the beginning of the games and forced a draw if clear in late middlegame / transposition into endgame. That's in my opinion the perfect situation. An order for chess programmers to produced such things! I wrote that again and again so many years because this is "Human like pure" and much better as simple "contempt" UCI parameters.

Winter:
Draw quote is light under and move average is light under.
After all I know in 85-90% of cases a typical computer chess statistic for engines stronger in endgames.

Move average & draw quote:
2 interesting points but only in combination if we are looking a bit deeper.

IMPORTANT:
We can only see more if we produced games without resign mode.
People working on rating systems have interest to produced many games only. Most of them are using resign parameters with the result that we can nothing do with all the produced games. We can produced a rating list with boring ratings, not more, not less.

SHIT HAPPENS for people with interest to learn more about engines!

---

OK, next one ...

---

Need a strong coffee!!
I will write a second message a bit later ...
To write complicated things in English language isn't easy for me, sorry!

Best
Frank

Frank Quisinsky · Post by **Frank Quisinsky** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:38 am

Pieces on board or games ended with x moves??!
To build an opinion isn't esay because results can be quit different.

If we are looking to Elo pure, pieces on board are more exacatly. To often the situation that middlegames ended with 80 or more moves (to many pieces on board). But statistic errors for "rough looking" are here not very important here. The statistic "Games ended with x moves" is good also.

Winter is on place 23 (normaly rating list, all games).

Again the results:

Code: Select all

   # Player                           :      Elo  Games  Score%   won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%   Error   OppAvg   OppE  MoveAvg
  23. Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2985.62    920    43.2   175   444   301   397.0   48.3   14.84  3041.25  15.42     85.7

Let us look in the first gaming phase for Winter!

13-23 pieces on board (entry 1)
Games ended with 20-59 moves (entry 2)
Games ended with 60-79 moves (entry 3)

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
  23 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  3025.42    127    48.4    7   109    11    61.5   85.8  19.07  3036.01  20.87   34.2
  36 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2949.16    178    36.0   10   108    60    64.0   60.7  24.93  3054.18  24.96   35.0
  25 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2948.22    304    38.7   59   117   128   117.5   38.5  30.51  3051.92  34.90   38.1

We should compare the results with other engines, have around the same playing strength in Elo. We can see that Winter is with many pieces on board on the same ranking place 23. The many to fast lost games (entry 2) must be produced with lesser pieces and lesser move average of games. Could be a problem that Winter switched to fast the pieces and after all goes to often in bad positions.

07-12 piecees on board (entry 1)
Games ended with 80-99 moves (entry 2).

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
  28 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2953.10    371    39.5   71   151   149   146.5   40.7  23.56  3040.39  27.70   38.8
  21 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2985.17    184    47.8   64    48    72    88.0   26.1  40.86  3009.31  39.57   36.1

And with more moves Winter goes on place 21.
But with lesser pieces on board Elo go down?!
That's an interesting "unlogic" constellation!

For the moment I don't have a explanation.
I am not the Winter expert but after all for me an unlogic situation.
Maybe auto-tunings for not all of the important parameters?
I don't know!

02-06 pieces on board (entry 1)
Games ended with 100-300 moves (entry 2).

Code: Select all

   # Player                          :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD
  19 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  3028.33    254    50.2   42   171    41   127.5   67.3  22.28  3027.67  22.88   37.2
  22 Winter 0.8 x64                  :  2986.79    422    44.8   97   184   141   189.0   43.6  24.11  3033.31  23.87   39.0

Give us the rough information that Winter is stronger in endgames.

After all ...
The weaknesses is that Winter lost to many games very fast and won not enough games very fast. Not an attacker in the earlier middlegame. The endgame is good for the playing strength Winter have.

With pieces on board is to see that most of the fast lost games comes from the late middlegame.

So, Winter plays unremarkable computer chess for the playing strength Winter have. With a bit more aggressiveness in the middle of the games Winter can jumb to the "more human-like-style". In most of cases engines produced a more aggressiveness style with more active pawns. So if I am beta tester of Winter I would like to analyze the pawn moves. Maybe Winter is to the beginning not active enough with pawn moves or switched to fast knight, bishops.

I don't know!

Interpretation for Winter is really not easy!

Best
Frank

Frank Quisinsky · Post by **Frank Quisinsky** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:55 am

Hi there,

we have interest to generate more stats to the end of the tournament.
Maybe we can fill the holes to questions of playing styles of engines.

For me much more easy to explain Wasp because Wasp I know most and the statistics are easy to explain for an interpretation.

Winter is on the way and I am sure the programmer create here an interesting chess program.

Best
Frank

A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Re: A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Re: A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Re: A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Re: A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!

Re: A comparsion -Elo helps-, pieces on board, 3 ratings for 41 engines!