The most stupid idea by the Stockfish Team

[Damir]

I saw that both Nicolet and Vondele said good for the patch. I suppose both of them must have been drunk and partying too much when they commited the patch.

[Modern Times]

I prefer the network to be in the exe. Doesn't matter about the size. I just want to download and use it with minimal effort and less scope for error. So I'm happy with this approach.

[Gabor Szots]

Can't see the problem. Download the exe with the embedded NNUE and if you are not satisfied with it download a different NNUE and set the corresponding parameter.

[Nay Lin Tun]

Next step, please embed
1. Brainfish opening book
2. 5 men Tablebase!
3. Free GUI, for all "one click installation "
Still around 1 GB. These days , people download, 20 GB films or 100 GB video games.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi there,

I like what "yurikvelo" wrote.

In additional:
It make sense to offer release version's with _and_ without hybrid file.
For the daily available test versions it make no sense to download again and again 20Mb of the same "data scrap".

Best
Frank

[chrisw]

This is similar to how people on this forum were complaining about the hybrid NNUE / classic eval which gained elo and wanted a pure NNUE. Outside of computer chess enthusiasts, most people want to just be able to download the engine and have it work (with default settings be as strong as possible) with minimal fuss.

This is undoubtedly true, people want stuff to download and work without any fuss at all. Trouble with any added fuss, whether typing in some exact hieroglyphic flag line, or moving a directory or whatever is that users (maybe first time) don’t know if they’re going to get an internet experience of having to then download something else, or it won’t work on their system and they need to find support or a workaround, or the instructions assume knowledge they don’t have or whatever, I guess most people have had the experience of losing two days to some infuriating fail of something that was supposed to make possible the prior impossible but just won’t work. Added fuss = anxiety, will this work or am I going to get driven crazy by it. Work first time or not at all, especially when you are supplying a large audience.

[jdart]

Agreed. There will be x100 times download from Official stockfish website, if stockfish team can put engine and GUI together.

Majority of people buy Fritz engine or other commercial software because, there is a package of engine plus gui by "one click" installation.

If there were three-four steps,
1. download stockfish
2. download nn
3. install and locate nn
4. download gui etc, 99% of engine users will say bye bye Stockfish. (Chessbase will be laughing for it)

I have for years (decades, actually) offered a native installer for Arasan that includes a GUI, opening book, and engine, ready to run after installation. Last I checked this package was what 90% or more of the people downloading from my site chose. I do provide just an engine package, too, and people on this form are likely to pick that, instead. But programmers, testers, and other advanced users are a small part of the overall user base for chess software.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Jon,

I created in the past the setup files from Arena, Arena are available on my own website and domain.
In the year I give up my work around Arena we had 3.5 Million downloads in one year only!!

51.000 on one day because a newspaper from Argentina added a review on the first site.
Or Polish computer bild do the same and give us more as 80.000 downloads on one day!

After webstats from my older domain most people download Arena without the group of partner engines.
Around 81% download the pure Arena setup without engines.

I am thinking the most are able to added a simple additional file in the same directory.

To offer the release version with and without hybrid file should be not a problem for the Stockfish people.

Best
Frank

[Cornfed]

Outside of computer chess enthusiasts, most people want to just be able to download the engine and have it work (with default settings be as strong as possible) with minimal fuss.

Most people? I would say that's true only for 5% of idiots, who are not able to download the network file and put it into the same folder as the Stockfish engine!

more than 5%...and that you use the term 'idiots' may just show you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to any percentage.

[Cornfed]

Can't see the problem. Download the exe with the embedded NNUE and if you are not satisfied with it download a different NNUE and set the corresponding parameter.

Makes all the sense in the world!

But remember, (as in politics) there are fringe people who think 'my way or else' and crave the 'purity' of an idea over practicality (ex: Libertarian vs...everyone else).

When it comes to chess, the 'fringe' tend to be the 'gamers' who use engines to cyborg 'their' games instead of using their own head and think 'they' are actually winning/losing a game.

I'll refrain from the armchair psychoanalysis...