Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

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Nordlandia
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Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Nordlandia » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:11 am

Stockfish NNUE show winning +2/+3 in this line. But regular stockfish only show something like +1.4ish

Black trump card is the pawn majority on the kingside.




S.Taylor
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by S.Taylor » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:25 pm

I think a modern day engine would instantly defend this and crush Tal.
Even the chess app on chess.com, in instant mode, level 25.
I know tal cleared the diagonals for his 2 bishops, but i dont see he has a win because of that

So, alas! We cannot follow the example of our greatest masters of yesteryear.

Jouni
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Jouni » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:52 pm

My engines think black is winning! Something wrong?
Jouni

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Ajedrecista
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5.

Post by Ajedrecista » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:17 pm

Hello:
Nordlandia wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:11 am
[...]

ChessGames has got Tal's win in 37 moves instead of 28 for some reason. It has exactly the moves that are commented in your PGN. I mean, ChessGames has 17. ... f5 instead of 17. ... g6 and so on:

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139729



USCF Chess Life magazine of November, 1965 also register Tal's win in 37 moves (pages 232 and 233), following ChessGames game:

USCF Chess Life (November, 1965).

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:27 pm

The more interesting question is (I think) will any an engine sac the knight?
rqb2rk1/3nbppp/p2pp3/6P1/1p1BPP2/2NB1Q2/PPP4P/2KR3R w - - fmvn 16; hmvc 0; pm Nd5;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Vinvin
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Vinvin » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:25 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:11 am
Stockfish NNUE show winning +2/+3 in this line. But regular stockfish only show something like +1.4ish
...
What's the point of this message ?
I don't understand.

Dann Corbit
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:28 pm

Vinvin wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:25 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:11 am
Stockfish NNUE show winning +2/+3 in this line. But regular stockfish only show something like +1.4ish
...
What's the point of this message ?
I don't understand.
I guess he means to say that NNUE SF has a better evaluation than SF without NNUE.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

zullil
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by zullil » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:30 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:27 pm
The more interesting question is (I think) will any an engine sac the knight?
rqb2rk1/3nbppp/p2pp3/6P1/1p1BPP2/2NB1Q2/PPP4P/2KR3R w - - fmvn 16; hmvc 0; pm Nd5;
Not any that play sound chess. For the position after White's Nd5:

info depth 57 seldepth 98 multipv 1 score cp 379 nodes 173803855976 nps 30847533 hashfull 1000 tbhits 9409730 time 5634287 pv e6d5 e4d5 g7g6 h1e1 e7d8 f3h3 d7e5 h3h6 d8b6 f4f5 c8f5 d3f5 f8e8 d4e5 e8e5 e1e5 d6e5 f5e4 b6e3 c1b1 b8b5 h6h3 e3g5 d5d6 a8d8 c2c3 b5b6 d6d7 f7f5 e4c2 g8g7 c3b4 b6b4 h3g2 b4f4 g2d5 e5e4 c2b3 e4e3 b3c4 d8f8 d5d4 f4d4 d1d4 f5f4 d4e4 f8d8 h2h4 g5f6 e4f4 d8d7 b2b4 d7d2 f4e4 d2b2 b1c1 b2b4 c1c2 b4b2 c2d3 a6a5 d3e3 b2h2 e3f3 f6h4 e4e5 h2h3 f3e2 h4d8 e5d5 h3h4 e2d3 d8f6 d5d7 g7h8 c4d5 a5a4 d5e4 h4h3 d3c4 h3e3 e4d3 a4a3 d7f7 f6g7 f7d7 g7b2 c4c5 e3g3 d7d6 h8g7 d6d7 g7f6 d7d6 f6g5

Looks like Black dominates.

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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Dann Corbit » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:37 am

Of course, this is truth.
Here is a deep search from the position where Tal sacrificed the knight:

Code: Select all

Searching: rqb2rk1/3nbppp/p2pp3/6P1/1p1BPP2/2NB1Q2/PPP4P/2KR3R w - - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0

 1   +1.37   00:00   1554K  Ne2 
 2   -0.08   00:00   2596K  Ne2 e5 
 3   -0.13   00:00   3088K  Na4 e5 Be3 exf4 Qxf4 
 4   -0.14   00:00   3671K  Na4 e5 Be3 exf4 Qxf4 
 5   -0.25   00:00   4115K  Na4 e5 Be3 exf4 Qxf4 
 6   -0.16   00:00   4841K  Na4 e5 Be3 exf4 Qxf4 
 7   -0.28   00:00   5327K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 
 8   -0.10   00:00   5914K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 
 9   +0.03   00:00   6346K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 
10   +0.17   00:00   7009K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 a4 
11   -0.08   00:00   7510K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 Bg4 Be2 Bxe2 Qxe2 Bxg5 Nd5 Bxe3+ Qxe3 Kh8 Rhg1 Qb7 
12   +0.05   00:00   8129K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 b3 axb3 a4 Nd5 Qb7 
13   -0.01   00:00   8638K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Kb1 Bg4 Nd5 Qb7 Rdf1 Be6 Bd4 Rfc8 h4 
14   +0.01   00:00   9223K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 Be6 Nd5 Bxd5 exd5 a4 h5 b3 Kb1 
15   +0.02   00:00   9708K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 a4 Kb1 Qb7 Bd4 b3 a3 Bg4 Rdf1 Rfc8 c3 
16   +0.25   00:00  13183K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 Bg4 Nd5 Qb7 Be2 Be6 h4 a5 g6 Bxd5 gxh7+ Kh8 Rhg1 Bf6 Rxd5 Rfc8 Kb1 Qc7 
17   +0.23   00:00  15563K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 Bb7 h4 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 Rc8 Nd5 Bxd5 exd5 b3 Bf5 bxc2+ Bxc2 
18   +0.21   00:00  19867K  Ne2 a5 h4 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 b3 Kb1 a4 Bd4 Nxd3 Nd5 Nf4 Nxf4 Be6 cxb3 axb3 a3 
19   +0.25   00:00  23252K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 b3 Kb1 a4 Bd4 Bb7 a3 Rc8 c3 Ra5 Rhe1 Bc6 Nd5 Qb7 Re2 Bxd5 
20   +0.30   00:00  36532K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 h4 a4 Bd4 Qb7 Kb1 b3 a3 Be6 c3 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bc4 Rg3 d5 Nxd5 Bd6 Re3 Ra5 
21   +0.28   00:00  41405K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 Bg4 Nd5 Qb7 Be2 Be6 h4 a5 Kb1 a4 Rd4 Bxd5 exd5 Bd8 Rf1 Ba5 Bd1 Qc7 Qe4 a3 b3 Rfc8 Bc1 
22   +0.13   00:00  58632K  Ne2 a5 Kb1 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 Qb7 Bd4 a4 Rdf1 b3 a3 Rb8 h4 bxc2+ Bxc2 Nc4 Ka1 Ne3 Qf2 Nxc2+ Qxc2 Be6 Qg2 Qb3 Nxe6 fxe6 
23   +0.21   00:01  71948K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 b3 a3 Bg4 Rdf1 Qb7 c3 Nxd3 Nxd3 Be6 h4 Bc4 Nb4 Bd8 Rf4 Ba5 h5 Bxb4 
24   +0.24   00:01  85978K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 Qb7 Rdf1 b3 a3 Bg4 h3 Be6 h4 Rfc8 Nxe6 bxc2+ Bxc2 fxe6 Ka1 Rab8 Rb1 Nc4 Rh3 e5 Bc3 Qb6 Qg3 Qb5 Rf1 
25   +0.10   00:01  87842K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 b3 a3 Qb7 Rdf1 Bg4 c3 Nxd3 Nxd3 Be6 h4 Ra5 Rhg1 Bc4 Nb4 Bd8 Rf4 Rb5 Qf3 Bb6 Bxb6 Qxb6 Qg3 Re8 
26   +0.23   00:01  92667K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Bd4 a4 Kb1 Qb7 Rdf1 b3 a3 Bg4 c3 Nxd3 Nxd3 Be6 h4 Ra5 Rhg1 Bc4 Nb4 Bxf1 Rxf1 Bd8 Nd5 Rxd5 exd5 Bb6 Bxb6 Qxb6 Qe4 Qb5 Re1 
27   +0.23   00:01 115645K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 b3 a3 Qb7 Rdf1 Bg4 h3 Bd7 h4 Rac8 Ka1 bxc2 Bxc2 Rc4 Bc3 Rfc8 Nd5 Be6 Bb1 Bxd5 exd5 Rxc3 bxc3 Qb3 Qb2 Rxc3 Qxb3 Rxb3 Rf4 Rxa3+ Kb2 
28   +0.40   00:04 304613K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Bg4 Nd5 Qb7 Rd2 a5 Bf4 Be6 Kb1 Nxd3 Qxd3 Bxd5 exd5 a4 h4 Rfc8 Re1 a3 b3 Qc7 h5 Ra5 Rde2 Bf8 g6 hxg6 hxg6 
29   +0.25   00:06 425143K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg2 a5 Bd4 a4 Kb1 b3 a3 Bg4 Rdf1 Qb7 h3 bxc2+ Bxc2 Bd7 h4 Rac8 Ka1 Rc4 Bc3 Rb8 Qd2 Rbc8 Nd5 Be6 Rh2 Bxd5 exd5 Bd8 Rh3 Qb5 Bd3 Nxd3 Qxd3 Ba5 
30   +0.48   00:11 777671K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 a5 Kb1 a4 Bd4 Qb7 h4 b3 Rhf1 Nxd3 Qxd3 Be6 Rc1 bxc2+ Rxc2 Rfc8 Rxc8+ Rxc8 Nxe6 fxe6 Bc3 a3 b4 Kh8 h5 Qc7 Bd2 Qc4 Qxc4 Rxc4 Rf7 
31   +0.48   00:14 953218K  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Bb7 Nd5 Bxd5 exd5 a5 Bd4 Nxd3+ Rxd3 a4 h4 Qc7 Kb1 Qc4 Re1 Rfc8 Qf2 Bf8 Rf1 Rc7 h5 Rac8 Rd2 b3 Bc3 bxc2+ Rxc2 Qe4 Ka1 a3 
32   +0.33   00:18   1223M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Bg4 Nd5 Qb7 Rd2 Be6 Bf4 a5 Kb1 a4 Bxe5 dxe5 Qxe5 Rfd8 Bc4 Bd6 Qd4 Kh8 Rhd1 Bf4 Nxf4 Rxd4 Rxd4 Rg8 Nxe6 fxe6 Bxe6 Rf8 Rd8 Qe7 Rxf8+ Qxf8 b3 axb3 cxb3 Qe7 Rd7 Qe8 Rd4 
33   +0.35   00:19   1287M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 Bg4 Rd2 Be6 Kb1 a5 Bf4 a4 Bxe5 dxe5 Qxe5 Rad8 h4 Qa7 Bc4 Bd6 Qd4 Bc5 Qd3 a3 b3 Qb8 c3 Bd6 cxb4 Bxd5 exd5 Bxb4 Rc2 Qf4 Rf1 Qe5 
34   +0.43   00:19   1320M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 Bg4 Rd2 a5 Bf4 Be6 Kb1 a4 Bxe5 dxe5 Qxe5 Rfd8 Bc4 Bd6 Qd4 Kh8 Rhd1 Bg4 Be2 Bxe2 Rxe2 Rac8 h4 b3 axb3 axb3 Qb6 Qa8 Qxb3 Rb8 
35   +0.25   00:23   1551M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 Bg4 Rd2 a5 Bf4 Be6 Kb1 a4 Bxe5 dxe5 Qxe5 Rad8 h4 Qa7 Qc7 Qxc7 Nxc7 a3 Rf1 Bd6 Nxe6 fxe6 Rdd1 Rxf1 Rxf1 Rf8 c4 Rxf1+ Bxf1 Bg3 h5 Bf4 g6 Be3 bxa3 bxa3 Kc2 hxg6 
36   +0.21   00:26   1773M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 Be6 Kb1 a5 Bd4 a4 h4 Bxd5 exd5 Nxd3 Rxd3 Ra5 Rf1 Rxd5 Qf2 f5 Qe3 Qd7 a3 bxa3 Rxa3 f4 Qe4 Rdf5 Re1 Bd8 Rf3 Ba5 Qe6+ Qf7 Re4 Qxe6 Rxe6 Bb4 Kc1 Bc5 Bxc5 dxc5 
37   +0.36   00:36   2421M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 a5 Bd4 Be6 Kb1 a4 h4 Bxd5 exd5 Nxd3 Rxd3 b3 cxb3 axb3 a3 Qxd5 Re1 Qc4 Rc1 Qa4 Qf3 Rac8 Rxc8 Rxc8 Qb7 Qc4 Qxb3 Qxb3 Rxb3 f6 Rb7 Kf7 b3 fxg5 hxg5 Ke6 a4 Bxg5 Rxg7 h6 a5 Bd2 
38   +0.44   00:47   3151M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Nd5 Be6 Kb1 a5 Bd4 a4 h4 b3 cxb3 Bxd5 exd5 axb3 a3 Nxd3 Rxd3 Qxd5 Rhd1 Qf5 Ka1 f6 Re1 Rf7 Rd2 Qd5 Bc3 Qc5 gxf6 Bxf6 Bxf6 Rxf6 Qxb3+ Kh8 Qd5 Raf8 Qxc5 dxc5 Rc1 Rf5 Rdc2 Rh5 Rxc5 Rxh4 Rc8 
39   +0.44   00:55   3652M  Ne2 e5 Be3 exf4 Nxf4 Ne5 Qg3 Qb7 Bd4 Nxd3+ cxd3 Be6 Kd2 Bxa2 Nh5 g6 Nf6+ Bxf6 gxf6 Qb5 Qh4 Kh8 Rdg1 Qh5 Qxh5 gxh5 Rg5 h4 Ra1 Bb3 Ke3 Rfc8 Rh5 Rg8 Rha5 Rac8 Rxa6 Rc2 Rh1 h6 Rxd6 Kh7 Rb6 Rgg2 Be5 Rcd2 Rb7 Kg6 Re1 Bc2 Rd7 Rd1 Rxd1 
40   +0.16   01:39   6539M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Qc7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Qg4 Bb7 Bh6 Bf6 Ng3 Kh8 Bc1 Qc6 Qd1 a5 Rxd6 Qc4 Qd3 Qxd3 Rxd3 Rc8 Rd2 a4 Rd6 Bc6 Re1 b3 axb3 axb3 cxb3 Bb7 Bd2 Rfc7 Rb6 
41   +0.25   01:52   7379M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Qc7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 Rf7 f5 Bb7 h4 a5 Bg5 Rc8 Rd2 a4 Bxe7 Qxe7 Rgd1 Qc7 a3 bxa3 Qxa3 Rf6 Rg2 Bc6 Rd3 Rb8 Kc1 Qb7 Nh5 Rf7 Rxd6 Bxe4 Rgd2 Rbf8 f6 gxf6 Rd8 Bf3 Ng3 Bg4 Qxa4 Qf3 R8d3 Qf4 Qxf4 exf4 Rd4 Ra7 R2d3 Ra1+ Kd2 f5 Rxf4 Rd1+ Kc3 Rc8+ Kb3 Rxd3+ cxd3 
42   +0.36   02:06   8288M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Qc7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 h4 a5 Ng3 a4 Nh5 Kh8 Nxg7 Rxg7 Rxg7 Kxg7 Rd2 Kh8 f6 Be6 fxe7 Qxe7 Bg5 Rf8 Bxe7 Rxf3 Kc1 Rf1+ Rd1 Rxd1+ Kxd1 Bxa2 Bxd6 b3 Bxe5+ Kg8 Bd4 Kf7 c3 Ke6 
43   +0.33   02:36  10195M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 Bb7 f5 Rf7 h4 a5 Bg5 a4 Bxe7 Qxe7 Qd1 Rd8 h5 Qf6 Qe1 b3 axb3 axb3 Rxb3 d5 Qb4 dxe4 Nxe4 Bxe4 Qxe4 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rb7 Rf7 Rxf7 Kxf7 c4 Rd4 b3 Rh4 Kb2 Rxh5 b4 Rh4 Kb3 Rh3+ Ka4 Ke6 Rxg7 e4 b5 e3 b6 e2 b7 
44   +0.40   03:27  13433M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 h4 a5 Bg5 Rc8 Rd2 a4 Bxe7 Qxe7 Rgd1 Qxh4 Rxd6 h6 Qd3 Kh8 Rh1 Qf4 Rf1 Qg5 Rg6 Rd8 Rxg5 Rxd3 cxd3 hxg5 d4 exd4 e5 Ba6 Rd1 d3 e6 Ra7 Ne4 Kg8 Nxg5 Kf8 Ne4 Ke7 Nc5 Kf6 Nxd3 Kxf5 Nxb4 Kxe6 Rd8 
45   +0.40   06:44  26000M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Qc4 b3 Qc6 Qg4 Kh8 Qh5 Rff8 Bg5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qc7 Qg4 Rf7 Rd3 Rc8 Rg2 a5 Rgd2 Rd8 Nf1 Ba6 Rf3 Bxf1 Rxf1 Rf6 Rg1 Ra8 h4 a4 h5 a3 Kc1 Rc8 Rf2 Qa7 h6 Rxh6 f6 
46   +0.35   07:03  27219M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Re1 Rg6 Rd7 Rg7 Rd2 Rg6 b3 Bf3 Bc5 e4 Rd8+ Kg7 Rd7+ Kg8 Rc7 Rgg5 Be3 Rg2 h4 Rd5 Rc1 Rd8 Ra7 Rd5 c3 bxc3 Rxc3 Rd1+ Rc1 
47   +0.44   07:52  30331M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bb7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 exf4 Nh5 Rg6 Rxg6 hxg6 Nxf4 Qe8 Nd5 Qf7 Bd2 a5 a3 bxa3 Rxa3 a4 Nxe7+ Qxe7 Rxa4 Qe6 Qa3 Rxa4 Qxa4 Bxe4 Bc3 Bf5 Qa7 Kf8 Bxg7+ Ke8 Qb8+ Kd7 Qb7+ Ke8 b3 Qe4 Qc7 Qe7 Qxe7+ Kxe7 Kb2 Kd7 b4 Be6 Kc3 Kc6 Bf8 Bf5 Kb3 
48   +0.13   09:00  34661M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Qc7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Rxd6 Qxg5 Bxg5 Raf8 b3 Be4 Re1 Rf1 Rxf1 Rxf1+ Kb2 Kg7 Rd2 Bc6 Bd8 a4 bxa4 Bxa4 Re2 e4 Bb6 Rf4 Be3 Rh4 a3 bxa3+ Kxa3 Bd7 Kb4 Bg4 Bd4+ Kf7 Rxe4 Rxh2 
49   +0.29   09:01  34726M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bb7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 Qc7 f5 Rf7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kc1 e4 h4 Bg4 Kd2 Kf7 c4 bxc3+ Kxc3 Rh5 Bg5 h6 Bxh6 Rxh4 Ra6 Rh2 Kd4 Rxa2 
50   +0.13   09:22  36079M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bb7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 Qc7 f5 Rf7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 Rd8+ Kg7 Rd7+ Rf7 Rxf7+ Kxf7 Bb6 a4 Kc1 Ke6 Ba5 b3 axb3 axb3 cxb3 Be4 Be1 Kd6 b4 Bc6 h4 Bb5 Kd2 h5 b3 Kd5 Ke3 Ke6 
51   +0.32   09:33  36807M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bb7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Qc7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kb2 Kg7 Bb6 e4 Bd4+ Kg8 Rh6 Bg4 Ra6 Kf7 Ra7+ Ke6 Rxh7 Rf1 Rh6+ Kd5 Bb6 Bf5 
52   +0.38   10:18  39643M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 Bb7 Rg1 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Qc7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kb2 Kf7 Rh6 Kg7 h4 Be2 Rd6 Rh5 Rd5 Rxh4 Rxe5 Kf6 Rxa5 Re4 Bg5+ Kg6 Bd2 Rd4 Be3 Rg4 Ra8 Re4 Bc5 h5 Ra4 h4 Rxb4 Rxb4 Bxb4 Kf7 Bd6 Ke6 Bc7 
53   +0.00   20:26  78579M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Ng3 e5 Be3 exf4 Bxf4 g6 h4 Be6 Ne2 Nxd3 Rxd3 f6 Qg3 fxg5 hxg5 Rf7 Nd4 Bd7 Nb3 Qc6 Rd5 Raf8 Bxd6 Bxd6 Qxd6 Rf1+ Rxf1 Qxd6 Rxd6 Rxf1+ Nc1 Bb5 b3 Rg1 c4 bxc3 a4 Be8 Rxa6 Rxg5 Ra8 Kf7 Ra7+ Kg8 Re7 Bc6 Re6 Bb7 Re7 
54   +0.09   20:55  80409M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 Ng3 Bb7 f5 Rc8 Rd2 Rf7 h4 a5 f6 Bxf6 Nf5 Rff8 Nxd6 Rcd8 Nxb7 Rxd2 Bxd2 Qb6 Rg2 Qxb7 h5 a4 h6 g6 Qd3 Be7 Qc4+ Kh8 Rg1 a3 Rf1 Rxf1+ Qxf1 Kg8 Qd3 Kf8 Qf3+ Ke8 Qb3 Qd7 Be3 Qc6 Qg8+ Kd7 Qxh7 Qxe4 
55   +0.38   23:12  89225M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Qg4 Bb7 Bh6 Bf6 Ng3 Kh8 Bc1 Qc6 Bg5 a5 Rgd1 Rd8 Qh5 Qc7 a4 bxa3 Rxa3 Bxg5 Qxg5 Bc6 Rf3 Rf6 Rfd3 Rb8 Qd2 Rd8 Qc3 Rc8 h4 Rh6 R1d2 Rf6 Qa3 Rd8 Rd1 Rh6 Rc3 Rb8 Rc4 Qb6 Qc3 Rc8 h5 Rf6 Qa3 Qc7 
56   +0.32   27:55 107355M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kb2 Kf7 Rh6 Kg7 h4 e4 Ra6 Rh5 Bf2 Be2 Ra7+ Kg6 a4 bxa3+ Kxa3 Rd5 Kb2 h5 Be3 Bd1 Kc3 Kf5 Rg7 Ke6 Rg6+ Kd7 Rf6 Ke7 Rf1 Ke6 Rf8 Rd7 
57   +0.50   41:20 158832M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 b3 f6 Rxf6 Rxf6 Qxc2+ Ka1 Qxg2 Rxf8+ Rxf8 Rxg2 Bxe4 Rf2 Bd3 Rd2 e4 axb3 Rf3 Bb6 e3 Rxd3 e2 Nxe2 Rxd3 Bxa5 Rxb3 Nc3 Rb7 Ka2 Kf7 b4 Ke6 Kb3 d5 Ne2 Kd6 Nd4 Ke5 Kc3 h6 h3 g5 Bd8 Rd7 
58   +0.45   43:00 165202M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Qc7 Rd2 Bb7 Rg1 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kb2 Kf7 Rh6 Kg7 h4 Be2 Rd6 Rh5 Bf2 e4 Re6 Bf3 a4 bxa3+ Kxa3 Rf5 Bd4+ Kf7 Ra6 Rh5 Bf2 Bd1 Kb2 Rf5 Bd4 Rd5 Be3 Rh5 Bg5 h6 Rxh6 Rxh6 Bxh6 Kg6 Be3 Kh5 
59   +0.48   45:35 175114M  Ne2 Nc5 Kb1 Qc7 Rhg1 Nxd3 Rxd3 e5 Be3 f5 gxf6 Rxf6 f5 Rf7 Ng3 Bb7 Rd2 Bf8 Rf2 a5 Qg2 Be7 Nh5 Bh4 Rd2 Qc4 Nxg7 Kh8 Ne6 Qxe4 Ng5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rxd6 Rg8 Rxg8+ Kxg8 b3 Bf3 Kb2 Kf7 Rh6 Kg7 h4 e4 Ra6 Rh5 Bf2 Be2 Re6 Bf3 a4 bxa3+ Kxa3 Kf7 Ra6 Rf5 Kb2 Bg4 Ra7+ Ke6 Be3 Rf3 Bg5 h5 c4 e3 Re7+ Kd6 Rxe3 Rxe3 Bxe3 Kc7 Bg5 Kc6 Kc3 Be6 Kd4 Bf5 
60   +0.00 1:27:09 339265M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Kb1 e5 Be3 exf4 Bxf4 g6 Ne2 Nxd3 cxd3 Be6 Nd4 Qd7 Nxe6 Qxe6 h4 Rac8 h5 b3 Rd2 f6 Qg2 bxa2+ Ka1 fxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Qxg5 Rc5 Qg1 g5 h6 g4 Rf2 Rfc8 Rf1 Rg5 Rf5 Rg6 Qg3 Kh8 Rhf1 Kg8 Rh1 
61   +0.10 1:31:56 358591M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Nh5 b3 Bxg7 bxa2 Kd2 Rd8 Nf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 d5 Qh3 Qxf4+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 Rd7 Ra1 Bb7 Rxa2 Nxd3 cxd3 Rc8 Rha1 h6 Rg1 dxe4 gxh6+ Kh7 dxe4 Rc5 Ra4 Rb5 Rg5 Kxh6 Rxb5 axb5 Ra5 Kg6 Bc3 f5 exf5+ exf5 Rxb5 Kg5 Bd4 Kg4 h3+ Kg5 b4 Bg2 Rc5 Bxh3 b5 Rd6 Be5 Re6 Kd4 Bg4 Kd3 f4 Bd4+ Kg6 Re5 Rxe5 Bxe5 
62   +0.00 1:38:02 383051M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 h4 Nxd3+ Rxd3 f6 gxf6 Bxf6 Bxf6 Rxf6 Rg1 Bb7 f5 exf5 Nxf5 Rc8 Qd1 Qxc2+ Qxc2 Rxc2+ Kxc2 Bxe4 Rxg7+ Kf8 Rg4 Bxf5 Rxb4 Ke7 Rb6 a5 Rb5 a4 h5 Bxd3+ Kxd3 Rf2 Kc3 h6 a3 Rh2 Rb4 Rxh5 Rxa4 Rh3+ Kc2 Kd7 Ra7+ Kc6 a4 Rh2+ Kc3 h5 Ra6+ Kd5 Ra5+ Kc6 b4 Rh3+ Kb2 Kb6 Rg5 Rh2+ Kc3 Rh3+ 
63   +0.00 1:39:22 388387M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 h4 Nxd3+ Rxd3 f6 gxf6 Bxf6 Bxf6 Rxf6 Rg1 Bb7 f5 exf5 Nxf5 Rc8 Qd1 Qxc2+ Qxc2 Rxc2+ Kxc2 Bxe4 Rxg7+ Kf8 Rg4 Bxf5 Rxb4 Ke7 Rb6 a5 Rb5 a4 h5 Bxd3+ Kxd3 Rf2 Kc3 h6 a3 Rh2 Rb4 Rxh5 Rxa4 Rh3+ Kc2 Kd7 Ra7+ Kc6 a4 Rh2+ Kc3 h5 Ra6+ Kd5 Ra5+ Kc6 
64   +0.00 1:42:28 400743M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 h4 Nxd3+ Rxd3 f6 gxf6 Bxf6 Bxf6 Rxf6 Rg1 Bb7 f5 exf5 Nxf5 Rc8 Qd1 Qxc2+ Qxc2 Rxc2+ Kxc2 Bxe4 Rxg7+ Kf8 Rg4 Bxf5 Rxb4 Ke7 Rb6 a5 Rb5 a4 h5 Bxd3+ Kxd3 Rf2 Kc3 h6 a3 Rh2 Rb4 Rxh5 Rxa4 Rh3+ Kc2 Kd7 Ra7+ Kc6 a4 Rh2+ Kc3 h5 Ra6+ Kd5 Ra5+ Kc6 b4 Rh3+ Kb2 Kb6 Rg5 Rh2+ Kc3 Rh3+ Kc2 Rh2+ Kd3 Rh3+ Kd2 
65   +0.00 1:54:54 450029M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 h4 Nxd3+ Rxd3 f6 g6 h6 f5 e5 Be3 Bb7 Kb1 Rfc8 Rc1 a5 Bxh6 gxh6 Nh5 Qc5 Qg2 Kf8 Qd2 Bxe4 Qxh6+ Ke8 g7 Kd7 Nxf6+ Bxf6 Qxf6 Bd5 Qg6 e4 Rdd1 a4 c4 bxc3 Rxc3 Qa5 g8=R Rxg8 Qh7+ Kd8 Qh6 Kd7 
66   +0.00 2:26:14 575404M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Nh5 b3 Bxg7 bxa2 Kd2 Rd8 Nf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 d5 Qh3 Qxf4+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 Rd7 Ra1 Bb7 Rxa2 Rc8 Rg1 Nxd3 cxd3 Rc2 Be5 dxe4 dxe4 Rdd2 Ra4 Bc6 Rb4 Bb5 h4 Rd3+ Kf4 h6 gxh6+ Kh7 Bd4 Kxh6 Rg8 Rh3 Bf6 Rc5 Rh8+ Kg6 e5 Rc2 b3 Rf2+ Kg4 Rfh2 Rg8+ Kh7 Rxb5 axb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg5+ Kh7 
67   +0.00 2:26:31 576507M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Nh5 b3 Bxg7 bxa2 Kd2 Rd8 Nf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 d5 Qh3 Qxf4+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 Rd7 Ra1 Bb7 Rxa2 Rc8 Rg1 Nxd3 cxd3 Rc2 Be5 dxe4 dxe4 Rdd2 Ra4 Bc6 Rb4 Bb5 h4 Rd3+ Kf4 h6 gxh6+ Kh7 Bd4 Kxh6 Rg8 Rh3 Bf6 Rc5 Rh8+ Kg6 e5 Rc2 b3 Rf2+ Kg4 Rfh2 Rg8+ Kh7 Rxb5 axb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg5+ Kh7 
68   +0.00 2:35:16 610917M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Nh5 b3 Bxg7 bxa2 Kd2 Rd8 Nf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 d5 Qh3 Qxf4+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 Rd7 Ra1 Bb7 Rxa2 Rc8 Rg1 Nxd3 cxd3 Rc2 Be5 dxe4 dxe4 Rdd2 Ra4 Bc6 Rb4 Bb5 h4 Rd3+ Kf4 h6 gxh6+ Kh7 Bd4 Kxh6 Rg8 Rh3 Bf6 Rc5 Rh8+ Kg6 e5 Rc2 b3 Rf2+ Kg4 Rfh2 Rg8+ Kh7 Rxb5 axb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg5+ Kh7 
69   +0.00 3:39:24 862888M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Kb1 e5 Be3 exf4 Bxf4 g6 h4 Be6 Ne2 Nxd3 Rxd3 f6 h5 fxg5 hxg6 Rac8 Rd2 Rxf4 Nxf4 gxf4 gxh7+ Kh8 Rg1 Qa5 Rdg2 Qxa2+ Kc1 Bf6 Rg8+ Rxg8 hxg8=Q+ Bxg8 Qh5+ Bh7 Qe8+ Bg8 Rh1+ Kg7 Rg1+ 
70   +0.00 4:50:51 1149073M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Kb1 e5 Be3 exf4 Bxf4 g6 h4 Be6 Ne2 Nxd3 Rxd3 f6 gxf6 Bxf6 Bxd6 Qa5 Nc1 Bxb2 Bxf8 Rxf8 Qg3 Be5 Qg5 Qc7 h5 Bf4 Qg2 g5 e5 Qxe5 Ne2 Qa5 Nxf4 Rxf4 Kc1 b3 axb3 Qa1+ Kd2 Qa5+ Kd1 Qa1+ Ke2 Qe5+ Kd2 
71   +0.00 5:37:48 1337440M  Ne2 Nc5 Ng3 Qc7 Kb1 e5 Be3 exf4 Qxf4 Nxd3 Rxd3 f6 gxf6 Bxf6 Qxd6 Qxd6 Rxd6 Bg4 Bd4 Be7 Rb6 g6 c3 bxc3 bxc3 Rfb8 Rxb8+ Rxb8+ Kc2 Ba3 Kd3 Rb2 h3 Be6 h4 Bg4 h5 Rg2 Be5 a5 hxg6 hxg6 Nf1 Rxa2 Nd2 a4 Bd4 Be7 Rh8+ Kf7 Ra8 Bd1 Ra7 Ke6 Ra6+ Kf7 
With a search this deep, with modern computer programs and hardware, it is abundantly clear that the best move, Ne2, draws.
But aren't we all glad that Tal did not play that?
Someday, in the resurrection, I intend to thank him personally.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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Nordlandia
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Re: Tal's bold and reckless 16. Nd5

Post by Nordlandia » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:32 am

Kasparov writes:

"An extremely risky and, apparently, even a losing move. "The auditorium went still: what was this - ultra-boldness, recklessness? No one found an answer to these questions, it was simply not possible. My Great Predecessors part II 2003.

Garry intuitively claimed it was losing 17 years ago. The sacrifice is clearly dubious.

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