Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

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Frank Quisinsky
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Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi there,

the web site from Ed Schröder is a little wonderland.
Furnished with passion and love for the detail, not a secret!

But with a part of Somu 1.6 tool I am not sure.
Book depth can't be right for my still running FCP Tourney-2020.
The statistic I generated yesterday and all engines used the same FEOBOS opening book without own books.

Not sure, maybe other information from "Match-Stats" aren't right also?
Maybe Ed can help here ...

Best
Frank


Code: Select all

Engine                 Depth       Time   Games     Moves  Average Forfeit  Book Depth     MIDG   EARLY    ENDG    LATE
Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64     24.98  192:49:29     505     44029    15.77     0     5672 11.23    22.41 | 22.92 | 24.22 | 30.50
Minic 2.33 x64         33.30  177:44:42     510     41128    15.56     0     4131  8.10    28.09 | 28.99 | 32.18 | 44.06
Combusken 1.2.0 x64    28.77  179:24:42     509     41553    15.54     0     4725  9.28    25.63 | 26.14 | 26.71 | 35.69
Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64    22.98  185:46:41     506     43375    15.42     0     4099  8.10    21.54 | 22.45 | 21.02 | 27.90
Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64   35.47  176:46:30     508     41404    15.37     0     4085  8.04    28.13 | 29.35 | 34.38 | 50.58
SlowChess BC 2.2 x64   28.34  175:15:57     507     41155    15.33     0     4344  8.57    27.17 | 27.71 | 27.08 | 32.28
Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x6   31.26  178:06:06     504     42197    15.19     0     4447  8.82    27.35 | 27.72 | 29.24 | 39.94
SmarThink 1.98 AVX2    24.12  175:53:59     506     41758    15.16     0     4751  9.39    23.08 | 24.45 | 23.51 | 26.85
Winter 0.8 x64         28.27  174:21:58     508     41510    15.12     0     4618  9.09    23.35 | 24.21 | 27.86 | 39.15
Defenchess 2.2 POP x   32.22  179:36:20     506     42785    15.11     0     5386 10.64    28.83 | 28.94 | 31.05 | 39.91
Wasp 4.00 Modern x64   28.30  176:13:36     507     42246    15.02     0     5022  9.91    26.56 | 27.42 | 26.87 | 33.33
Monolith 2 PEXT x64    28.14  166:49:40     509     40218    14.93     0     4174  8.20    24.98 | 26.30 | 27.15 | 35.87
Booot 6.4 POP x64      33.06  161:15:08     507     38890    14.93     0     5000  9.86    29.60 | 30.05 | 32.90 | 42.03
Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64   35.07  160:02:26     508     38778    14.86     0     5719 11.26    30.76 | 33.11 | 34.25 | 46.10
RubiChess 1.7.3 x64    36.74  174:46:14     506     42702    14.73     0     4958  9.80    34.15 | 36.06 | 37.19 | 40.36
Rodent IV 0.22 POP x   31.08  173:33:03     511     42523    14.69     0     4910  9.61    25.52 | 26.49 | 29.73 | 41.21
iCE 4.0 v853 Modern    35.73  173:54:52     506     42648    14.68     0     6358 12.57    27.56 | 29.15 | 35.95 | 52.56
Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64   34.19  177:02:56     507     43603    14.62     0     4093  8.07    29.83 | 30.69 | 32.91 | 43.20
Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x   28.98  168:55:39     507     41763    14.56     0     4444  8.77    26.52 | 27.88 | 29.11 | 33.42
Protector 1.9.0 x64    24.88  168:12:42     506     41814    14.48     0     4191  8.28    21.12 | 22.60 | 22.11 | 35.18
Shredder 13 x64        32.94  166:01:37     506     41295    14.47     0     4247  8.39    28.92 | 30.34 | 32.82 | 41.21
Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64    36.75  170:54:48     507     42602    14.44     0     4099  8.08    32.11 | 33.22 | 36.23 | 46.09
Nirvanachess 2.4 POP   31.31  161:46:16     505     41017    14.20     0     4098  8.11    26.74 | 27.40 | 30.03 | 40.69
Ethereal 12.25 PEXT    34.45  170:29:02     510     43264    14.19     0     4112  8.06    31.15 | 31.24 | 33.73 | 41.45
Hannibal 1.7 x64       32.95  175:18:39     505     45002    14.02     0     4009  7.94    26.92 | 28.33 | 32.28 | 43.46
Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64     31.97  159:15:53     504     41158    13.93     0     4126  8.19    26.73 | 26.77 | 30.48 | 42.62
Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64    27.30  161:32:58     504     42444    13.70     0     4744  9.41    24.76 | 26.57 | 28.35 | 30.38
Demolito 2020-05-14    28.16  173:55:57     505     45911    13.64     0     4067  8.05    23.73 | 24.53 | 27.16 | 34.97
rofChade 2.3 BMI x64   26.15  165:19:35     506     43652    13.63     0     4392  8.68    27.92 | 28.13 | 26.90 | 22.99
Stockfish 11 BMI2 x6   38.46  153:12:50     506     40458    13.63     0     4275  8.45    32.98 | 34.12 | 38.03 | 49.30
Houdini 6.03 Pro x64   28.95  155:14:11     506     41003    13.63     0     4940  9.76    26.09 | 27.05 | 28.28 | 36.25
Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x6   28.92  156:43:46     506     42033    13.42     0     4078  8.06    25.64 | 26.53 | 26.87 | 38.58
Critter 1.6a x64       24.35  157:58:17     507     42562    13.36     0     5510 10.87    20.50 | 21.63 | 25.07 | 30.97
Schooner 2.2 SSE x64   36.20  154:48:54     506     41844    13.32     0     5791 11.44    30.53 | 30.73 | 34.91 | 50.00
Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64    34.24  151:46:58     505     41111    13.29     0     7095 14.05    31.26 | 32.25 | 33.08 | 42.07
Fire 7.1 POP x64       25.86  159:22:50     508     43638    13.15     0     4469  8.80    21.03 | 21.22 | 25.50 | 35.21
Chiron 4 x64           30.15  154:36:26     509     43331    12.84     0     4171  8.19    26.06 | 27.14 | 31.93 | 35.22
Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64    29.21  144:51:50     505     40629    12.84     0     6160 12.20    26.45 | 26.99 | 28.73 | 36.84
Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x   27.18  153:20:24     506     43062    12.82     0     4539  8.97    23.30 | 23.40 | 26.88 | 34.77
Equinox 3.30 x64       24.67  143:50:23     507     43696    11.85     0     5833 11.50    22.51 | 23.15 | 24.42 | 29.61
GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x   22.51  142:39:31     508     43540    11.80     0     4096  8.06    19.48 | 20.12 | 22.79 | 27.52


Legend

<b>Depth</b>     : Overall average search depth
<b>Time</b>      : Total time engine used
<b>Moves</b>     : Total moves engine played
<b>Average</b>   : Average time per move in centi-seconds
<b>Forfeit</b>   : Games engine lost due to time forfeit
<b>Book</b>      : Moves played from opening book plus average depth

<b>MIDG</b>      : Average search depth during the opening and middle game
<b>EARLY</b>     : Average search depth during the middle game without Queens, the so called early end game
<b>ENDG</b>      : Average search depth during the end game
<b>LATE</b>      : Average search depth during the late end game

List is sorted on <i>Average Time</i> indicating the engine that uses the most time tops.
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Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 6808
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Idea ...

Engines plays moves in ponder=off matches directly (comes from hashtables, we can give the name _little permanent brain_) produced a move in 0 second. Now the tool "match-stats" are thinking - alarm, an opening-book move- and the stats to average for opening-book moves will be wrong for all engines do such things.

Loud thinking ...
Absolutely not sure here!

The tool is really great and we can be proud to have such things but the mistake the tool produce here should be fixed.
But I have no idea how the problem can fix?

Best
Frank
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fastgm
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Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by fastgm »

I can confirm the error with the following small pgn-file with only 4 games.
http://www.fastgm.de/schach/test.pgn

Code: Select all

Engine                 Depth       Time   Games     Moves  Average Forfeit  Book Depth     MIDG   EARLY    ENDG    LATE
Demolito 2020-01-27    25.25    4:04:17       4       250    58.63     0       32  8.00    24.61 | 26.00 | 26.04 | 26.30
Stockfish 11           37.47    3:31:49       4       252    50.44     0       33  8.25    34.77 | 38.50 | 34.77 | 48.33
Depth should always be 8.00 book moves, since the opening book has exactly 16 half moves.
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Frank Quisinsky
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Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi,

Have a look in game 38, Replay-Zone on my site,
Go to end of the game ...

A book move before mate?
Some engines produced here the same mistake.

Replay-Zone:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_replay-zone.htm

Maybe for some reasons "Match-Stat" can't produce the right average of "book moves".
Sure, not easy to find a solution but Ed is working here ... all is possible!

:-)

Best
Frank
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Rebel
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Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Rebel »

Just now I see this.

A quick note, what I have seen sometimes in (commented) PGN output is that moves (late in the game) are without comment and as such are counted as book move. I am not sure if that's the case in the 4 games posted.

I will look into it later.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.
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Rebel
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Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Rebel »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:22 pm Hi,

Have a look in game 38, Replay-Zone on my site,
Go to end of the game ...

A book move before mate?
Some engines produced here the same mistake.

Replay-Zone:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_replay-zone.htm

Maybe for some reasons "Match-Stat" can't produce the right average of "book moves".
Sure, not easy to find a solution but Ed is working here ... all is possible!

:-)

Best
Frank
It's indeed what I already said in my previous post, in this particular case black has only one legal move and the engine (Winter) plays it without giving a main line. And for some reason the GUI you are using promoted that as a book move [ 58... Kh4 book 0s 59. Qh6# +M1/99 0s 1-0 ]

Two errors, one from the engine, one from the GUI, I hesitate to fix such errors :wink:
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.
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Rebel
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Full name: Ed Schröder

Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Rebel »

fastgm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:10 pm I can confirm the error with the following small pgn-file with only 4 games.
http://www.fastgm.de/schach/test.pgn

Code: Select all

Engine                 Depth       Time   Games     Moves  Average Forfeit  Book Depth     MIDG   EARLY    ENDG    LATE
Demolito 2020-01-27    25.25    4:04:17       4       250    58.63     0       32  8.00    24.61 | 26.00 | 26.04 | 26.30
Stockfish 11           37.47    3:31:49       4       252    50.44     0       33  8.25    34.77 | 38.50 | 34.77 | 48.33
Depth should always be 8.00 book moves, since the opening book has exactly 16 half moves.
Found the bastard and I am not happy. 'From game 4:

50. Bf1 {+47.95/1 0s}

It's an old story, engine programmers have a habit to code book moves, some use depth=0 or depth=1 (as in this case) others use depth=99 and Rybka was king with depth=384 :lol:

This one I am going to fix.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.
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Frank Quisinsky
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Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Ed,

think so!

The idea for "average book moves" is really good but after so many problems GUI, engines produced ... maybe better to delete the feature. An other idea is to set a hint in your explanation for "Match-Stats".

Thanks for looking and for your answere!

Best
Frank
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Rebel
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Full name: Ed Schröder

Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Rebel »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:56 pm Hi there,

the web site from Ed Schröder is a little wonderland.
Furnished with passion and love for the detail, not a secret!

But with a part of Somu 1.6 tool I am not sure.
Book depth can't be right for my still running FCP Tourney-2020.
The statistic I generated yesterday and all engines used the same FEOBOS opening book without own books.

Not sure, maybe other information from "Match-Stats" aren't right also?
Maybe Ed can help here ...

Best
Frank


Code: Select all

Engine                 Depth       Time   Games     Moves  Average Forfeit  Book Depth     MIDG   EARLY    ENDG    LATE
Fizbo 2.0 BMI2 x64     24.98  192:49:29     505     44029    15.77     0     5672 11.23    22.41 | 22.92 | 24.22 | 30.50
Minic 2.33 x64         33.30  177:44:42     510     41128    15.56     0     4131  8.10    28.09 | 28.99 | 32.18 | 44.06
Combusken 1.2.0 x64    28.77  179:24:42     509     41553    15.54     0     4725  9.28    25.63 | 26.14 | 26.71 | 35.69
Texel 1.07 BMI2 x64    22.98  185:46:41     506     43375    15.42     0     4099  8.10    21.54 | 22.45 | 21.02 | 27.90
Fritz 16 (Rybka) x64   35.47  176:46:30     508     41404    15.37     0     4085  8.04    28.13 | 29.35 | 34.38 | 50.58
SlowChess BC 2.2 x64   28.34  175:15:57     507     41155    15.33     0     4344  8.57    27.17 | 27.71 | 27.08 | 32.28
Vajolet2 2.8 BMI2 x6   31.26  178:06:06     504     42197    15.19     0     4447  8.82    27.35 | 27.72 | 29.24 | 39.94
SmarThink 1.98 AVX2    24.12  175:53:59     506     41758    15.16     0     4751  9.39    23.08 | 24.45 | 23.51 | 26.85
Winter 0.8 x64         28.27  174:21:58     508     41510    15.12     0     4618  9.09    23.35 | 24.21 | 27.86 | 39.15
Defenchess 2.2 POP x   32.22  179:36:20     506     42785    15.11     0     5386 10.64    28.83 | 28.94 | 31.05 | 39.91
Wasp 4.00 Modern x64   28.30  176:13:36     507     42246    15.02     0     5022  9.91    26.56 | 27.42 | 26.87 | 33.33
Monolith 2 PEXT x64    28.14  166:49:40     509     40218    14.93     0     4174  8.20    24.98 | 26.30 | 27.15 | 35.87
Booot 6.4 POP x64      33.06  161:15:08     507     38890    14.93     0     5000  9.86    29.60 | 30.05 | 32.90 | 42.03
Komodo 14.0 BMI2 x64   35.07  160:02:26     508     38778    14.86     0     5719 11.26    30.76 | 33.11 | 34.25 | 46.10
RubiChess 1.7.3 x64    36.74  174:46:14     506     42702    14.73     0     4958  9.80    34.15 | 36.06 | 37.19 | 40.36
Rodent IV 0.22 POP x   31.08  173:33:03     511     42523    14.69     0     4910  9.61    25.52 | 26.49 | 29.73 | 41.21
iCE 4.0 v853 Modern    35.73  173:54:52     506     42648    14.68     0     6358 12.57    27.56 | 29.15 | 35.95 | 52.56
Arasan 22.0 BMI2 x64   34.19  177:02:56     507     43603    14.62     0     4093  8.07    29.83 | 30.69 | 32.91 | 43.20
Andscacs 0.95 BMI2 x   28.98  168:55:39     507     41763    14.56     0     4444  8.77    26.52 | 27.88 | 29.11 | 33.42
Protector 1.9.0 x64    24.88  168:12:42     506     41814    14.48     0     4191  8.28    21.12 | 22.60 | 22.11 | 35.18
Shredder 13 x64        32.94  166:01:37     506     41295    14.47     0     4247  8.39    28.92 | 30.34 | 32.82 | 41.21
Pedone 2.0 BMI2 x64    36.75  170:54:48     507     42602    14.44     0     4099  8.08    32.11 | 33.22 | 36.23 | 46.09
Nirvanachess 2.4 POP   31.31  161:46:16     505     41017    14.20     0     4098  8.11    26.74 | 27.40 | 30.03 | 40.69
Ethereal 12.25 PEXT    34.45  170:29:02     510     43264    14.19     0     4112  8.06    31.15 | 31.24 | 33.73 | 41.45
Hannibal 1.7 x64       32.95  175:18:39     505     45002    14.02     0     4009  7.94    26.92 | 28.33 | 32.28 | 43.46
Laser 1.7 BMI2 x64     31.97  159:15:53     504     41158    13.93     0     4126  8.19    26.73 | 26.77 | 30.48 | 42.62
Senpai 2.0 BMI2 x64    27.30  161:32:58     504     42444    13.70     0     4744  9.41    24.76 | 26.57 | 28.35 | 30.38
Demolito 2020-05-14    28.16  173:55:57     505     45911    13.64     0     4067  8.05    23.73 | 24.53 | 27.16 | 34.97
rofChade 2.3 BMI x64   26.15  165:19:35     506     43652    13.63     0     4392  8.68    27.92 | 28.13 | 26.90 | 22.99
Stockfish 11 BMI2 x6   38.46  153:12:50     506     40458    13.63     0     4275  8.45    32.98 | 34.12 | 38.03 | 49.30
Houdini 6.03 Pro x64   28.95  155:14:11     506     41003    13.63     0     4940  9.76    26.09 | 27.05 | 28.28 | 36.25
Fritz 17 (Ginkgo) x6   28.92  156:43:46     506     42033    13.42     0     4078  8.06    25.64 | 26.53 | 26.87 | 38.58
Critter 1.6a x64       24.35  157:58:17     507     42562    13.36     0     5510 10.87    20.50 | 21.63 | 25.07 | 30.97
Schooner 2.2 SSE x64   36.20  154:48:54     506     41844    13.32     0     5791 11.44    30.53 | 30.73 | 34.91 | 50.00
Xiphos 0.6 BMI2 x64    34.24  151:46:58     505     41111    13.29     0     7095 14.05    31.26 | 32.25 | 33.08 | 42.07
Fire 7.1 POP x64       25.86  159:22:50     508     43638    13.15     0     4469  8.80    21.03 | 21.22 | 25.50 | 35.21
Chiron 4 x64           30.15  154:36:26     509     43331    12.84     0     4171  8.19    26.06 | 27.14 | 31.93 | 35.22
Igel 2.5.0 BMI2 x64    29.21  144:51:50     505     40629    12.84     0     6160 12.20    26.45 | 26.99 | 28.73 | 36.84
Nemorino 5.00 BMI2 x   27.18  153:20:24     506     43062    12.82     0     4539  8.97    23.30 | 23.40 | 26.88 | 34.77
Equinox 3.30 x64       24.67  143:50:23     507     43696    11.85     0     5833 11.50    22.51 | 23.15 | 24.42 | 29.61
GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x   22.51  142:39:31     508     43540    11.80     0     4096  8.06    19.48 | 20.12 | 22.79 | 27.52


Legend

<b>Depth</b>     : Overall average search depth
<b>Time</b>      : Total time engine used
<b>Moves</b>     : Total moves engine played
<b>Average</b>   : Average time per move in centi-seconds
<b>Forfeit</b>   : Games engine lost due to time forfeit
<b>Book</b>      : Moves played from opening book plus average depth

<b>MIDG</b>      : Average search depth during the opening and middle game
<b>EARLY</b>     : Average search depth during the middle game without Queens, the so called early end game
<b>ENDG</b>      : Average search depth during the end game
<b>LATE</b>      : Average search depth during the late end game

List is sorted on <i>Average Time</i> indicating the engine that uses the most time tops.
What a mess :D

Can you mail me the PGN?
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.
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Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 6808
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Somu 1.6 (tool) question for Ed ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Ed,

comes from the still running FCP Tourney-2020.
Round 13 of 50 is over since today!

You can download each time the current results (updated 1-2 times daily).

Tournament site, download link can be found under ...
FCP Tourney-2020, logs
http://www.amateurschach.de/main/_fcp-tourney-2020.htm

Or dicretly under the current tournament-table:
http://www.amateurschach.de/ftptrigger/ ... -2020.html

In download file you will find a directory with files from Shredder GUI (here the original PGN).
In Chessbase directory *.pgn files round by rounds (generated with ChessBase 15).

Best
Frank
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