Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

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Rom77
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Rom77 »

"Computerschach und Spiele" #5, 2002, page 10:
Die Hardware, auf der Deep Fritz läuft, ist ein 8 x 900 MHz schneller Compaq mit vier GB Speicher. Nicht das allerschnellste, was es heute gibt, aber sicher wesentlich leistungsfähiger als die gängigen Dualsysteme. Der Rechner, der etwas dicker als ein Standard-PC ist, aber um ein Vielfaches schwerer, wurde Mitte September in das Trainingscamp von Vladimir Kramnik geliefert. Mathias Feist installierte dort die letzte Version von Deep Fritz (er war über die beobachteten 3,5 Millionen Stellungen in der Sekunde nur mäßig begeistert) und Kramnik konnte mit seinen Sekundanten an die Arbeit gehen.

The hardware on which Deep Fritz runs is an 8 x 900 MHz Compaq with four GB of memory. Not the fastest thing there is today, but certainly much more powerful than the common dual systems. The computer, which is slightly thicker than a standard PC, but much heavier, was delivered to Vladimir Kramnik's training camp in mid-September. Mathias Feist installed the last version of Deep Fritz (he was only moderately enthusiastic about the observed 3.5 million positions per second) and Kramnik was able to work with his seconds.

"Computerschach und Spiele" #6, 2002, page 10:
Der 8 x 900 MHz Rechner von Compaq

The 8 x 900 MHz computer from Compaq

"Computerschach und Spiele" #6, 2002, page 19:
In Bahrain erzielte das Programm auf dem verwendeten achtmal 900-MHz-Rechner Suchtiefen von 40 Halbzügen (=20 Zügen) in einigen besonders genau betrachteten Abspielen.

In Bahrain, the program achieved search depths of 40 half-moves (= 20 moves) on the eight times 900 MHz computer used in some particularly carefully considered plays.
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Ajedrecista
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002?

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Vincent:

I have found the following information: firstly under CPW, there is a link to Selective Search computer magazine (page 9 of that issue):

http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/SS_103.pdf
The greatly anticipated million dollar 'Brains in Bahrain' match between 2807 rated Vladimir Kramnik and an 8 processor (Xeon 933 Mhz's each I believe) Deep Fritz 7 finally took place in October.
Please note the 'I believe', so it is not totally sure.

Secondly, under the official web of the event via The Week in Chess 339 (7th May 2001):

https://web.archive.org/web/20011223221 ... ents&p=mvm

Code: Select all

KRAMNIK VS DEEP FRITZ: HEAD TO HEAD

     Vladimir Kramnik                                Deep Fritz
            26                     AGE                   10
          RUSSIAN              NATIONALITY             GERMAN
           6'4"                   HEIGHT                12CM
          95 KG                   WEIGHT                50 G
      1 MOVE/SECOND               SPEED        6,000,000 MOVES/SECOND
BRAIN - 100 BILLION NEURONS    PROCESSORS            8 PENTIUMS
Finally, there is some info in the same site concerning the engine qualification between Deep Fritz and Deep Junior, where both played on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020109144 ... p=mvm_deep
To win its position to challenge Kramnik this October, Deep Fritz beat rival software Deep Junior by contesting 25 games on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers. IBM was invited to pitch its formidable Deep Blue against Deep Fritz for this contest, but declined to do so.
------------

More references to 6,000,000 positions per second:

https://web.archive.org/web/20021204234 ... com/about/
[...]

Deep Fritz 7 unveiled to play Kramnik in Bahrain
6,000,000 positions per second, running on a XXXMHz Pentium Xx
Almost!

https://web.archive.org/web/20021205053 ... stats.html
2001: October - Deep Fritz 7 to be launched for the Man v Machine challenge 6,000,000 moves per second - the most powerful chess computer on earth.
Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Last edited by Ajedrecista on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Milos
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002?

Post by Milos »

Ajedrecista wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:25 pm Finally, there is some info in the same site concerning the engine qualification between Deep Fritz and Deep Junior, where both played on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020109144 ... p=mvm_deep
To win its position to challenge Kramnik this October, Deep Fritz beat rival software Deep Junior by contesting 25 games on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers. IBM was invited to pitch its formidable Deep Blue against Deep Fritz for this contest, but declined to do so.
------------

More references to 6,000,000 positions per second:

https://web.archive.org/web/20021204234 ... com/about/
What does it mean dual processing??? Petium III Xeons are all single core, single thread machines.
Also having 8 CPUs running 6Mnps would mean that each core is running at least 800knps. That seems extremely high for such a crappy 933MHz core. Only possible in late end-game.
Someone was seriously lying when advertising those events.
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Ajedrecista
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002?

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Milos:
Milos wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:35 pmWhat does it mean dual processing??? Petium III Xeons are all single core, single thread machines.
Also having 8 CPUs running 6Mnps would mean that each core is running at least 800knps. That seems extremely high for such a crappy 933MHz core. Only possible in late end-game.
Someone was seriously lying when advertising those events.
I know very little about hardware, so I guess it was some piece of marketing. Since we do not have the logs of Deep Fritz of that match, it is only speculation.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002?

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

Milos wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:35 pm
Ajedrecista wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:25 pm Finally, there is some info in the same site concerning the engine qualification between Deep Fritz and Deep Junior, where both played on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020109144 ... p=mvm_deep
To win its position to challenge Kramnik this October, Deep Fritz beat rival software Deep Junior by contesting 25 games on identical powerful Pentium III dual processing 933 MHz computers. IBM was invited to pitch its formidable Deep Blue against Deep Fritz for this contest, but declined to do so.
------------

More references to 6,000,000 positions per second:

https://web.archive.org/web/20021204234 ... com/about/
What does it mean dual processing??? Petium III Xeons are all single core, single thread machines.
Also having 8 CPUs running 6Mnps would mean that each core is running at least 800knps. That seems extremely high for such a crappy 933MHz core. Only possible in late end-game.
Someone was seriously lying when advertising those events.
True ....

People would take the published data for granted ....

All was done in the sake of advertising ....

Cheers,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
syzygy
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by syzygy »

It seems Fritz 9 reached about 480knps on a 1Ghz Pentium III:
http://www.jens-hartmann.at/Fritzmarks/

I have no idea when Fritz 9 was released.

This article mentions 4Mnps:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1466810.stm
Milos
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Milos »

syzygy wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:38 pm It seems Fritz 9 reached about 480knps on a 1Ghz Pentium III:
http://www.jens-hartmann.at/Fritzmarks/

I have no idea when Fritz 9 was released.

This article mentions 4Mnps:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1466810.stm
That Pentium III 1GHz number seems to be inflated since Pentium 4 and 2GHz shows 688knps (and all other Pentium 4 benchmarks agree). So at best Pentium III 1GHz should get around 340knps, and Pentium III Xeon 933MHz around 300knps. Which leads us to assumption that 8 CPUs at best scaling (which was almost certainly not the case in practice) would have around 2.4Mnps. So they lied a lot.
Vinvin
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by Vinvin »

Milos wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:30 am
syzygy wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:38 pm It seems Fritz 9 reached about 480knps on a 1Ghz Pentium III:
http://www.jens-hartmann.at/Fritzmarks/

I have no idea when Fritz 9 was released.

This article mentions 4Mnps:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1466810.stm
That Pentium III 1GHz number seems to be inflated since Pentium 4 and 2GHz shows 688knps (and all other Pentium 4 benchmarks agree). So at best Pentium III 1GHz should get around 340knps, and Pentium III Xeon 933MHz around 300knps. Which leads us to assumption that 8 CPUs at best scaling (which was almost certainly not the case in practice) would have around 2.4Mnps. So they lied a lot.
Not really, the Pentium 4 is known to do less thing per clock cycle. It was a will from Intel to produce a processor with very high frequency but sacrifice optimization. This changed completely with Pentium-M and Core-2 : - a 1.6 GHz Pentium M can typically attain or even surpass the performance of a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4-M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M#Overview
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M ANSARI
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by M ANSARI »

Oh I remember that match. I actually went there to watch it live as it was only an hour flight away. I do remember at the time that this was extremely powerful hardware for that period.
syzygy
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Re: Which CPUs was used against Kramnik in 2002 ?

Post by syzygy »

Vinvin wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:57 am Not really, the Pentium 4 is known to do less thing per clock cycle. It was a will from Intel to produce a processor with very high frequency but sacrifice optimization. This changed completely with Pentium-M and Core-2 : - a 1.6 GHz Pentium M can typically attain or even surpass the performance of a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4-M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M#Overview
Indeed, at the time Intel was convinced it could reach 10Ghz within a few years but it ran into an unexpected barrier at around 5Ghz. That barrier has still not been removed (in non-laboratory 24/7 settings).

The Pentium-M is what saved Intel and what became the basis for Core 2.

https://www.theregister.com/2000/12/11/ ... _10ghz_pc/
Intel plans $1500 10GHz PC

But not until 2005
https://www.theregister.com/2002/09/25/ ... p_in_race/
Intel eases up in race to 10GHz

...
The Pentium 4 has leapfrogged up the speed ramp, from 1.4GHz at launch in the Fall of 2000, and will hit 3GHz by the end of this year. At the P4's launch, Intel put the lifespan of Netburst at up to seven years and said that if Moore's law held true, the company had the headroom to break the 10GHz mark by 2006.

The vendor has consistently said the Netburst architecture can scale up to 10GHz. However, Siu last week appeared to suggest that the drive to higher speeds will moderate in the coming years. Prescott will underpin the vendor's desktop line through 2004, he said. "I don't think Prescott will hit 10GHz in this iteration," he said. More significantly, perhaps, he described Netburst as having a ten year cycle, implying that Intel's race to the 10GHz mark will not be as break-neck as some may have expected.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/680/6
The future of Intel's manufacturing processes
by Anand Lal Shimpi on December 11, 2000 1:23 AM EST

10GHz by 2005 running at < 1 volt

...

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SlyNine - Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - link
It'll be much much longer then we all thought. :P
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cdurkinz - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
You had no idea.... Just checking in, another decade on from when this article released! ;)