How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

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Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 am

How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Nay Lin Tun »

I have never seen such draw. ( ccc game)
[d]2r4r/3KP3/1k6/1p6/1P3Q2/8/8/8 b - - 53 77


[pgn] [Event "Post-CCC14: Totally Fair Stockfish vs Lc0 (3|2)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.06"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "Lc0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A52"]
[GameDuration "00:12:14"]
[GameEndTime "2020-07-06T15:03:38.806 PDT"]
[GameStartTime "2020-07-06T14:51:24.712 PDT"]
[Opening "Budapest"]
[PlyCount "191"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[Variation "Alekhine Variation , Balogh gambit"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 Nxe5 6. Nc3 g6 7. h4 Be6 8. f4
Nec6 9. Be3 Bg7 10. Qc2 Nd4 11. Bxd4 Bxd4 12. Nf3 Nc6 13. Nd5 Bg7 14. h5 O-O 15.
O-O-O Re8 16. Qd2 a5 17. g4 Bxg4 18. Rdg1 Bxf3 19. Bxf3 Ne7 20. hxg6 hxg6 21. f5
Nxd5 22. fxg6 Nf6 23. gxf7+ Kxf7 24. Rxg7+ Kxg7 25. Qg5+ Kf7 26. Rh6 Rg8 27.
Bh5+ Nxh5 28. Qxh5+ Kf8 29. Qf5+ Ke8 30. Qe6+ Kf8 31. Qf5+ Ke8 32. Qe6+ Kf8 33.
Rf6+ Qxf6 34. Qxf6+ Ke8 35. e5 Kd7 36. e6+ Kc6 37. Qf5 Kb6 38. Qb5+ Ka7 39.
Qxa5+ Kb8 40. Qf5 Rxa2 41. e7 Ra8 42. Qd7 Ka7 43. Qxc7 Rac8 44. Qxd6 Rxc4+ 45.
Kd2 Re8 46. Ke3 Rc6 47. Qd7 Rcc8 48. Kf4 Rh8 49. Kf5 Ka6 50. b4 b5 51. Kg6 Kb6
52. Qd5 Ka6 53. Qe5 Kb6 54. Kf7 Rh7+ 55. Ke6 Rh6+ 56. Kd7 Rhh8 57. Qd4+ Kb7 58.
Qd5+ Kb6 59. Qe5 Rhg8 60. Qf4 Rh8 61. Qd6+ Kb7 62. Qe5 Kb6 63. Qe6+ Kb7 64. Qd5+
Kb6 65. Qe6+ Kb7 66. Qe4+ Ka6 67. Qd4 Kb7 68. Qf4 Ka7 69. Qe3+ Kb7 70. Qe2 Kb6
71. Qe5 Rhg8 72. Qe6+ Kb7 73. Qd6 Rh8 74. Qf4 Kb6 75. Qf2+ Kb7 76. Qg3 Kb6 77.
Qf4 Kb7 78. Qg3 Kb6 79. Qf2+ Kb7 80. Qg2+ Kb6 81. Qg6+ Kb7 82. Qf7 Kb6 83. Qf4
Kb7 84. Qd6 Ka7 85. Qd3 Kb6 86. Qg6+ Kb7 87. Qd6 Ka7 88. Qd3 Kb6 89. Qg3 Kb7 90.
Qf3+ Kb6 91. Qe3+ Kb7 92. Qf3+ Kb6 93. Qg3 Kb7 94. Qg2+ Kb6 95. Qg1+ Kb7 96. Qg3
1/2-1/2 [/pgn]
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Alayan
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:48 pm
Full name: Alayan Feh

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Alayan »

Probably Graph History Interaction with the hash table unaware of the 50 move rule.
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Milos
Posts: 4190
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:47 am

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Milos »

Alayan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:03 am Probably Graph History Interaction with the hash table unaware of the 50 move rule.
It's not only that. On move 73.Qd6 is a sixth choice in mpv even with only 5-men. Out of 26 possible moves 5 are clear wins and one is a cursed win. And SF chooses a cursed win. So that's not only a hash miss. It could be an actual bug.
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jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by jhellis3 »

There are 8m TBs now?
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jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by jhellis3 »

Perhaps I am missing something, but AFAICS (with single thread crystal) the position appears to be winning?

White shuffles a bit to get the queen to e5 threatening the g5 pawn with the black king already at g6, black moves rg8 to hold the pawn, white Qa1 and gg?


[pgn]
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round ""]
[White ""]
[Black ""]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "2r4r/3KP3/1k6/1p6/1P3Q2/8/8/8 b - - 53 77"]

77...Kb7 78.Qf3+ Kb6 79.Qe3+ Kb7 80.Qe5 Kb6 81.Qd4+ Kb7 82.Qd5+ Kb6 83.Qe5
Rhg8 84.Qa1 Rc7+ 85.Ke6 Rc6+ 86.Kf7 Rcc8 87.Qa5+ Kc6 88.Qa6+ Kc7 89.Qxb5 *
[/pgn]
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by zullil »

Nay Lin Tun wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:34 am I have never seen such draw. ( ccc game)
[d]2r4r/3KP3/1k6/1p6/1P3Q2/8/8/8 b - - 53 77


[pgn] [Event "Post-CCC14: Totally Fair Stockfish vs Lc0 (3|2)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.06"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "Lc0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A52"]
[GameDuration "00:12:14"]
[GameEndTime "2020-07-06T15:03:38.806 PDT"]
[GameStartTime "2020-07-06T14:51:24.712 PDT"]
[Opening "Budapest"]
[PlyCount "191"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[Variation "Alekhine Variation , Balogh gambit"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 Nxe5 6. Nc3 g6 7. h4 Be6 8. f4
Nec6 9. Be3 Bg7 10. Qc2 Nd4 11. Bxd4 Bxd4 12. Nf3 Nc6 13. Nd5 Bg7 14. h5 O-O 15.
O-O-O Re8 16. Qd2 a5 17. g4 Bxg4 18. Rdg1 Bxf3 19. Bxf3 Ne7 20. hxg6 hxg6 21. f5
Nxd5 22. fxg6 Nf6 23. gxf7+ Kxf7 24. Rxg7+ Kxg7 25. Qg5+ Kf7 26. Rh6 Rg8 27.
Bh5+ Nxh5 28. Qxh5+ Kf8 29. Qf5+ Ke8 30. Qe6+ Kf8 31. Qf5+ Ke8 32. Qe6+ Kf8 33.
Rf6+ Qxf6 34. Qxf6+ Ke8 35. e5 Kd7 36. e6+ Kc6 37. Qf5 Kb6 38. Qb5+ Ka7 39.
Qxa5+ Kb8 40. Qf5 Rxa2 41. e7 Ra8 42. Qd7 Ka7 43. Qxc7 Rac8 44. Qxd6 Rxc4+ 45.
Kd2 Re8 46. Ke3 Rc6 47. Qd7 Rcc8 48. Kf4 Rh8 49. Kf5 Ka6 50. b4 b5 51. Kg6 Kb6
52. Qd5 Ka6 53. Qe5 Kb6 54. Kf7 Rh7+ 55. Ke6 Rh6+ 56. Kd7 Rhh8 57. Qd4+ Kb7 58.
Qd5+ Kb6 59. Qe5 Rhg8 60. Qf4 Rh8 61. Qd6+ Kb7 62. Qe5 Kb6 63. Qe6+ Kb7 64. Qd5+
Kb6 65. Qe6+ Kb7 66. Qe4+ Ka6 67. Qd4 Kb7 68. Qf4 Ka7 69. Qe3+ Kb7 70. Qe2 Kb6
71. Qe5 Rhg8 72. Qe6+ Kb7 73. Qd6 Rh8 74. Qf4 Kb6 75. Qf2+ Kb7 76. Qg3 Kb6 77.
Qf4 Kb7 78. Qg3 Kb6 79. Qf2+ Kb7 80. Qg2+ Kb6 81. Qg6+ Kb7 82. Qf7 Kb6 83. Qf4
Kb7 84. Qd6 Ka7 85. Qd3 Kb6 86. Qg6+ Kb7 87. Qd6 Ka7 88. Qd3 Kb6 89. Qg3 Kb7 90.
Qf3+ Kb6 91. Qe3+ Kb7 92. Qf3+ Kb6 93. Qg3 Kb7 94. Qg2+ Kb6 95. Qg1+ Kb7 96. Qg3
1/2-1/2 [/pgn]
The position is winning for White, but not within the context of this game, due to three-fold repetition constraints?

Stockfish-dev says White erred with 73. Qd6, which threw away a win with 73. Qd5+.
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Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 am

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Nay Lin Tun »

Game link!
https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-ch ... c0&game=79
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Uri Blass
Posts: 10282
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Uri Blass »

Alayan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:03 am Probably Graph History Interaction with the hash table unaware of the 50 move rule.

Maybe it is better to start storing the 50 move rule counter in the hash tables to prevent the GHI problem in these cases when the idea is not to do it in every position but only in positions when all pawns or almost all pawns are blocked.
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Joerg Oster
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: Germany

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by Joerg Oster »

zullil wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:41 am
Nay Lin Tun wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:34 am I have never seen such draw. ( ccc game)
[d]2r4r/3KP3/1k6/1p6/1P3Q2/8/8/8 b - - 53 77


[pgn] [Event "Post-CCC14: Totally Fair Stockfish vs Lc0 (3|2)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.06"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "Lc0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A52"]
[GameDuration "00:12:14"]
[GameEndTime "2020-07-06T15:03:38.806 PDT"]
[GameStartTime "2020-07-06T14:51:24.712 PDT"]
[Opening "Budapest"]
[PlyCount "191"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[Variation "Alekhine Variation , Balogh gambit"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 Nxe5 6. Nc3 g6 7. h4 Be6 8. f4
Nec6 9. Be3 Bg7 10. Qc2 Nd4 11. Bxd4 Bxd4 12. Nf3 Nc6 13. Nd5 Bg7 14. h5 O-O 15.
O-O-O Re8 16. Qd2 a5 17. g4 Bxg4 18. Rdg1 Bxf3 19. Bxf3 Ne7 20. hxg6 hxg6 21. f5
Nxd5 22. fxg6 Nf6 23. gxf7+ Kxf7 24. Rxg7+ Kxg7 25. Qg5+ Kf7 26. Rh6 Rg8 27.
Bh5+ Nxh5 28. Qxh5+ Kf8 29. Qf5+ Ke8 30. Qe6+ Kf8 31. Qf5+ Ke8 32. Qe6+ Kf8 33.
Rf6+ Qxf6 34. Qxf6+ Ke8 35. e5 Kd7 36. e6+ Kc6 37. Qf5 Kb6 38. Qb5+ Ka7 39.
Qxa5+ Kb8 40. Qf5 Rxa2 41. e7 Ra8 42. Qd7 Ka7 43. Qxc7 Rac8 44. Qxd6 Rxc4+ 45.
Kd2 Re8 46. Ke3 Rc6 47. Qd7 Rcc8 48. Kf4 Rh8 49. Kf5 Ka6 50. b4 b5 51. Kg6 Kb6
52. Qd5 Ka6 53. Qe5 Kb6 54. Kf7 Rh7+ 55. Ke6 Rh6+ 56. Kd7 Rhh8 57. Qd4+ Kb7 58.
Qd5+ Kb6 59. Qe5 Rhg8 60. Qf4 Rh8 61. Qd6+ Kb7 62. Qe5 Kb6 63. Qe6+ Kb7 64. Qd5+
Kb6 65. Qe6+ Kb7 66. Qe4+ Ka6 67. Qd4 Kb7 68. Qf4 Ka7 69. Qe3+ Kb7 70. Qe2 Kb6
71. Qe5 Rhg8 72. Qe6+ Kb7 73. Qd6 Rh8 74. Qf4 Kb6 75. Qf2+ Kb7 76. Qg3 Kb6 77.
Qf4 Kb7 78. Qg3 Kb6 79. Qf2+ Kb7 80. Qg2+ Kb6 81. Qg6+ Kb7 82. Qf7 Kb6 83. Qf4
Kb7 84. Qd6 Ka7 85. Qd3 Kb6 86. Qg6+ Kb7 87. Qd6 Ka7 88. Qd3 Kb6 89. Qg3 Kb7 90.
Qf3+ Kb6 91. Qe3+ Kb7 92. Qf3+ Kb6 93. Qg3 Kb7 94. Qg2+ Kb6 95. Qg1+ Kb7 96. Qg3
1/2-1/2 [/pgn]
The position is winning for White, but not within the context of this game, due to three-fold repetition constraints?

Stockfish-dev says White erred with 73. Qd6, which threw away a win with 73. Qd5+.
Hmm, a MultiPV=8 search implies there are 7 moves still winning, also Qd6 ...
(1 Thread, 512 GB Hash, syzygy-6)

Code: Select all

info depth 57 seldepth 56 multipv 1 score cp 15401 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 53 multipv 2 score cp 15400 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6e2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c4 e6f7 c4c8 e2b5 b7c7 b5c5 c7d7 c5f5 d7d6 f5e6 d6c7 b4b5 g8h8 e6c6 c7b8 c6b6 b8a8 b6a6 a8b8 b5b6 h8h7 f7e6 c8c6 e6d5 h7e7
info depth 57 seldepth 64 multipv 3 score cp 15399 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6e4 b7b6 e4d4 b6b7 d4d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 51 multipv 4 score cp 15399 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6e5 b7b6 e5d4 b6b7 d4d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 49 multipv 5 score cp 15397 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6f7 g8h8 f7d5 b7b6 d5e5 h8g8 e5d4 b6b7 d4d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 84 multipv 6 score cp 15397 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6d6 g8h8 d6d5 b7b6 d5e5 h8g8 e5d4 b6b7 d4d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 49 multipv 7 score cp 15397 wdl 1000 0 0 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6f5 c8c7 d7e6 b7a6 f5f7 c7c8 e6d7 a6b7 f7d5 b7b6 d5a2 c8c7 d7e6 c7c8 a2a5 b6c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6a7 c7c6 a7c5 c6b7 c5b5 b7c7 b5a5 c7c6 a5a6 c6c7 a6d6 c7b7 e6d7 g8g5 b4b5 g5b5
info depth 57 seldepth 28 multipv 8 score cp 0 wdl 32 935 33 nodes 974738899 nps 1571867 hashfull 1000 tbhits 39469258 time 620115 pv e6b3 c8c7 d7e6 c7c6 e6f5 g8e8 b3f7 c6d6 f5f4 b7c7 f7e8 d6d4 f4g5 d4d5 g5g6 d5d6 g6f7
bestmove e6d5 ponder b7b6
However, this probably requires a much deeper search ...
Jörg Oster
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: How did this happen? SF says +154 and draw.

Post by zullil »

OK. I didn't realize the +150 evaluations occurred during a game. Note that the "blue" Stockfish that was kibitzing noticed when Stockfish erred at move 73.
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