WDL

[zullil]

...

WIth a TB draw this is more complicated since a draw score does not guarantee a draw. But if the root position is a TB draw, then Stockfish knows that and could again make use of that knowledge quite easily. (Perhaps this is being planned and has simply not yet been done in the current master.)

See https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... -653510021 and its successor.

[syzygy]

...

WIth a TB draw this is more complicated since a draw score does not guarantee a draw. But if the root position is a TB draw, then Stockfish knows that and could again make use of that knowledge quite easily. (Perhaps this is being planned and has simply not yet been done in the current master.)

See https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... -653510021 and its successor.

I do agree that feature creep is bad, but that is why the feature should not have been added to begin with. Now it just makes SF look dumb in certain situations where that could be avoided.

[zullil]

...

WIth a TB draw this is more complicated since a draw score does not guarantee a draw. But if the root position is a TB draw, then Stockfish knows that and could again make use of that knowledge quite easily. (Perhaps this is being planned and has simply not yet been done in the current master.)

See https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... -653510021 and its successor.

I do agree that feature creep is bad, but that is why the feature should not have been added to begin with. Now it just makes SF look dumb in certain situations where that could be avoided.

Agreed.

[syzygy]

...

WIth a TB draw this is more complicated since a draw score does not guarantee a draw. But if the root position is a TB draw, then Stockfish knows that and could again make use of that knowledge quite easily. (Perhaps this is being planned and has simply not yet been done in the current master.)

See https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... -653510021 and its successor.

I do agree that feature creep is bad, but that is why the feature should not have been added to begin with. Now it just makes SF look dumb in certain situations where that could be avoided.

Agreed.

So I did not add it to Cfish

[MikeB]

IS Kvs K really the issue here? Stockfish uses adjudication and no egtb in fishtest - so of course their data will be deficient. My opinion is that for games that have a known result , why would anyone even look at WDL?

And why would anyone look at WDL in the first place.
But if a prediction of the probabilities of win, draw and loss as the outcome of the current game is shown, then it is a bit peculiar not to show accurate numbers when those numbers are known.

SF uses a conversion function to map (score, game_ply) to a winning percentage for white (and then applies the same function to (-score, game_ply) to find the winning percentage for black = losing percentage for white). It should not be difficult to let this function map a TB win or better to 100 percent. (Perhaps it does so, I did not check.)

WIth a TB draw this is more complicated since a draw score does not guarantee a draw. But if the root position is a TB draw, then Stockfish knows that and could again make use of that knowledge quite easily. (Perhaps this is being planned and has simply not yet been done in the current master.)

I cannot disagree with your comments - I like WDL, but that is probably just me - but not that I believe it would ever be 100 percent accurate even most of the time except for known cases - mates and known draws.

[Ovyron]

Where does all this anger come from?

We've had these discussions before. I only sound angry in your head. Are you incapable of reading my messages with your internal voice in a calmed and cheerful voice?

Can I help in any way? Would adding smilies at the end of my sentences help or something? Like:

Leela models WDL on the fly . Stockfish applies some arbitrary formula that takes score and move number to bring out some user misleading abomination .

They're not doing anything similar whatsoever, Stockfish's WDL just appears the same at the end .

Stop pretending they're the same because the only thing they have in common is the name .

Because, I never do anything that makes me angry, if these discussions angered me I'd have stopped having them long time ago. Just having fun.

[Nordlandia]

I think I have downloaded all the WDL files. But I have to ask to be certain.

1495 files total at 8.24 TB . Still have 16 to go. 1511 is the total number of WDL tables.

[zullil]

I think I have downloaded all the WDL files. But I have to ask to be certain.

1495 files total at 8.24 TB . Is that correct ?

This thread is about engines providing WDL scores when evaluating chess positions. You seem to be asking about Syzygy endgame tables.

1495 seems wrong. Shouldn't it be 145 + 365 + 1001 = 1511?

Maybe start a new thread so folks can confirm the number.

[Ovyron]

(but that shows how reusing the same name for something well established, but unrelated, can only lead to confusion)