Leela crushes any resistance in this position
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Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Tried a couple of games in 30m+30s format with contempt at 0 and 36 (+50% in contempt) both ended in draw. Strangely SF does not treat the bishop as a problem.
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Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Yes!! Winter-Capablanca 1919: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1055995
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Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
What do you mean by "does not treat the bishop as a problem"?Nordlandia wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:31 am Tried a couple of games in 30m+30s format with contempt at 0 and 36 (+50% in contempt) both ended in draw. Strangely SF does not treat the bishop as a problem.
Go on then. Throw the single line at me. (The drawn positions I gave as examples in this thread were from "single lines".) "Pretty sure" does not mean "sure". Of course, we cannot be 100% certain it's a draw (or a loss).
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Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
On my quick analysis with engine at the background, this seems to be a forced win as
long as the position is not oversimplified. Just exchange one rook and maintain 1 R + N + B. The game seems to be a forced win for black.
[pgn]
[Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.07.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20070107_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0 v0.26.0"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
6. ... Rad8 {+0.51/19 31} 7. Rde1 {-0.35/38 91s} Bxf3 {+0.88/14 48} 8. gxf3
{-0.27/40 48} Kg7 {+0.93/14 31} 9. a4 {-0.40/47 165s} Rf6 {+1.25/13 73s}
10. h4 {-0.50/46 66s} Rd5 {+1.31/14 63s} (10. .. Rxe6 11. Rxe6 Rd1+ 12. Kg2
Rb1 13. hxg5 hxg5 14. Nd2 Rxb2 15. Ne4 Bd8 16. Nd6) 11. Kg2 {-0.97/41 212s}
Rxe6 {+1.49/15 70s} 12. Rxe6 {-0.26/41 68s} Bc7 {+1.52/14 40} 13. Nd4
{-0.17/55 33} Re5 {+1.89/16 77s} 14. Rxe5 {-0.39/56 178s} Bxe5 {+1.98/16
41} 15. Nxc6 {-0.39/71 33} bxc6 {+2.41/14 91s} 16. h5 {-0.39/76 73s} Kf6
{+3.62/12 181s} 17. Kf1 {-0.39/81 65s} c5 {+3.62/12 0.21s} 18. Ke2
{-0.39/88 57} c4 {+3.63/11 52} 19. Kf1 {-0.39/89 59} Ke6 {+3.86/10 148s}
20. Kg2 {-0.39/91 46} Bd6 {+3.86/10 75s} 21. Kh3 {-0.39/90 47} Bc5
{+3.76/11 71s} 22. Bg1 {-0.39/87 54} Kd6 {+3.58/12 77s} 23. Kg4 {-0.39/89
357s} Ke5 {+3.58/13 adjudication 52s, Draw by adjudication: user decision}
*
[/pgn]
/
/
Below position arised after 13.hxg5 line above.
Where black will have active R and a slight advantage. But needs deeper analysis.
[d]8/pp4k1/1bn1R3/6p1/P4p2/1NP2P2/1P3PKB/1r6 w - - 0 14
[pgn]
[Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.07.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20070107_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0 v0.26.0"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "20"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]
6. ... Rad8 {+0.51/19 31} 7. Rde1 {-0.35/38 91s} Bxf3 {+0.88/14 48} 8. gxf3
{-0.27/40 48} Kg7 {+0.93/14 31} 9. a4 {-0.40/47 165s} Rf6 {+1.25/13 73s}
10. h4 {-0.50/46 66s} Rxe6 11. Rxe6 Rd1+ 12. Kg2 Rb1 13. hxg5 hxg5 14. Nd2
Rxb2 15. Ne4 Bd8 16. Nd6 *
[/pgn]
long as the position is not oversimplified. Just exchange one rook and maintain 1 R + N + B. The game seems to be a forced win for black.
[pgn]
[Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.07.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20070107_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0 v0.26.0"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
6. ... Rad8 {+0.51/19 31} 7. Rde1 {-0.35/38 91s} Bxf3 {+0.88/14 48} 8. gxf3
{-0.27/40 48} Kg7 {+0.93/14 31} 9. a4 {-0.40/47 165s} Rf6 {+1.25/13 73s}
10. h4 {-0.50/46 66s} Rd5 {+1.31/14 63s} (10. .. Rxe6 11. Rxe6 Rd1+ 12. Kg2
Rb1 13. hxg5 hxg5 14. Nd2 Rxb2 15. Ne4 Bd8 16. Nd6) 11. Kg2 {-0.97/41 212s}
Rxe6 {+1.49/15 70s} 12. Rxe6 {-0.26/41 68s} Bc7 {+1.52/14 40} 13. Nd4
{-0.17/55 33} Re5 {+1.89/16 77s} 14. Rxe5 {-0.39/56 178s} Bxe5 {+1.98/16
41} 15. Nxc6 {-0.39/71 33} bxc6 {+2.41/14 91s} 16. h5 {-0.39/76 73s} Kf6
{+3.62/12 181s} 17. Kf1 {-0.39/81 65s} c5 {+3.62/12 0.21s} 18. Ke2
{-0.39/88 57} c4 {+3.63/11 52} 19. Kf1 {-0.39/89 59} Ke6 {+3.86/10 148s}
20. Kg2 {-0.39/91 46} Bd6 {+3.86/10 75s} 21. Kh3 {-0.39/90 47} Bc5
{+3.76/11 71s} 22. Bg1 {-0.39/87 54} Kd6 {+3.58/12 77s} 23. Kg4 {-0.39/89
357s} Ke5 {+3.58/13 adjudication 52s, Draw by adjudication: user decision}
*
[/pgn]
/
/
Below position arised after 13.hxg5 line above.
Where black will have active R and a slight advantage. But needs deeper analysis.
[d]8/pp4k1/1bn1R3/6p1/P4p2/1NP2P2/1P3PKB/1r6 w - - 0 14
[pgn]
[Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.07.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20070107_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0 v0.26.0"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "20"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]
6. ... Rad8 {+0.51/19 31} 7. Rde1 {-0.35/38 91s} Bxf3 {+0.88/14 48} 8. gxf3
{-0.27/40 48} Kg7 {+0.93/14 31} 9. a4 {-0.40/47 165s} Rf6 {+1.25/13 73s}
10. h4 {-0.50/46 66s} Rxe6 11. Rxe6 Rd1+ 12. Kg2 Rb1 13. hxg5 hxg5 14. Nd2
Rxb2 15. Ne4 Bd8 16. Nd6 *
[/pgn]
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.
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- Posts: 4556
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
The line I'd send depends on the moves you'd make in a game. Would you be willing to play it? Because, if you're sure this is a draw, you'd just need to send a move that leads to a position that you're sure is also a draw. And then another. Do the thing you did that made you sure to decide your next move. Would you be willing to do that?
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- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
It's possible, but would need to be demonstrated.
At least avoiding exchanging both rooks might avoid all the fortress or TB draws that engine lines run into. The question is why the engines allow these exchanges.
I wonder what SF-NNUE thinks.