Is EMAN the future number one?

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zullil
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by zullil »

Glarean wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:16 pm
zullil wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:55 pm I omitted details to prompt you to respond. :D
Of course... ;-)

zullil wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:55 pm20 threads at 3.15 GHz with 16 GB hash and 6-man tables. Times are in milliseconds.
Ohlala: 20 Threads & 6-men TB?
My tiny Ryzen7 had only 16 Thr. & only 5-men TB. So my Eman with his 22 seconds is a little faster than your SF... ;-)

zullil wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:55 pmWhether or not EMAN is faster than Stockfish (and I doubt it is any significant way), what I hope has now been made clear to you is that EMAN is a Stockfish-derivative
What's your question?! The programmer Khalid Omar himself says that Eman is a stockfish derivative: https://eman.zohosites.com/

zullil wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:55 pmHave you requested the source code to which you are legally entitled? If so, have you received it?
Are you sure he has to make the source code available to people who didn't get a binary from him? And if people got the binary from somewhere (not from him) anyway, he's probably not obligated to give them the source code, is he?
But I'm not a GPL expert, and I'm not the lawyer of the Eman programmer. The topic bores me a bit, and I'm out of the discussion.

Have fun: Walter
From the English version of your own article here: https://glarean-magazin.ch/2020/06/01/c ... ournament/
Well, as long as this engine is available free of charge - by the way, only to be picked up directly / personally from the author -
From your own post earlier in this thread :evil: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... 10#p845482
Glarean wrote:Can't confirm that. I wrote a mail to the programmer Khalid Omar, and he sent me the engine for free - period. What's the problem?
So, as you clearly know, he is legally obligated to provide the source code to you at least. It is sad that you decide to overlook criminality, and indeed, choose to promote this "engine" through your magazine. Claiming "boredom" and exiting the thread says a lot.
Glarean
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Full name: Walter Eigenmann

Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by Glarean »

corres wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:51 pm Sorry but analyzing a position is one thing and play matches is another.
You're probably right.
corres wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:51 pm I propose you to run Eman-Honey match in correct circumstances, that is no HT
Why should these 16 threads (HT) be worse than 8 cores for Honey?

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Glarean
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Full name: Walter Eigenmann

Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by Glarean »

zullil wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:14 pmClaiming "boredom" and exiting the thread says a lot.
Yes, it says I'm bored.

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corres
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by corres »

Glarean wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:42 pm
corres wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:51 pm Sorry but analyzing a position is one thing and play matches is another.
You're probably right.
corres wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:51 pm I propose you to run Eman-Honey match in correct circumstances, that is no HT
Why should these 16 threads (HT) be worse than 8 cores for Honey?
You can believe in what you want.
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Ovyron
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by Ovyron »

Gejsi Marku wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm I use Eman. And I have definitely come across multiple times of instances where Eman found moves SF couldn't even after a long search. But let's not get mistaken here. That is not because Eman is different than SF. That is because it's experience file. And depending how big your experience file is. You can call Eman more like a giant book that keeps growing.
That's great. However, the experience file wasn't something created by Eman's author. It was copy-pasted from another open source engine derived from Stockfish, and it exists in Eman because the person that created it decided to share the source, so anybody can add experience files into their engine. But I don't see Eman's author crediting from where he copied this code (or the BIN book learning code) anywhere.

Note I defend Eman's existence, as it has improved my life and made me learn a lot about engines (like, how important time management is. 20 ELO per a point of Slow Mover doesn't sound like much, but if it's 10 off that's 200 elo. In the time of Rybka 4 she was very sensitive to time management settings and hardware, and I thought it was because Vas wasn't good at time management, but it turns out Stockfish's Slow Mover 100 is not optimal at all, and it's a mess depending on how early you leave book, sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow, so of course Eman's author can improve for this and provide more consistent play regardless of when book ends.)

What I don't like is the claims that it's almost an original engine, when it's clear Eman's author didn't even provide 5% of its code, perhaps not even 1%, and that apparently all the tools for someone to make an Eman equivalent but open source are there, but nobody had done it, so people are missing out.

In the current state of affairs Eman does not deserve to be the future number one.
collins1982
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by collins1982 »

i have tried and tried but i cant download the Eman engine i cant find the link
karger
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by karger »

Just another stockfish clone without original code.
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Ovyron
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by Ovyron »

collins1982 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:26 am i have tried and tried but i cant download the Eman engine i cant find the link
See here:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74118

I don't know how skilled is Eman's author but he's an anti-piracy genius :D
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MikeB
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by MikeB »

Glarean wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:50 pm .

From one of my current engine tournaments a clear and deserved winner emerged: EMAN.

Image

I contacted the Eman programmer Khalid Omar and learned some details about his interesting engine...

The article also takes a closer look at the NN engine LeelaChessZero and its influence on the master players.

Here's the whole report and all downloads:

https://glarean-magazin.ch/2020/06/01/c ... ournament/

(English translation below)

Have fun: Walter

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To answer your question - only in your little basement tournament.
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Dann Corbit
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Re: Is EMAN the future number one?

Post by Dann Corbit »

Ovyron wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:25 am
collins1982 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:26 am i have tried and tried but i cant download the Eman engine i cant find the link
See here:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74118

I don't know how skilled is Eman's author but he's an anti-piracy genius :D
There used to be a TV show starring Robert Wagner
It was called "It Takes a Thief"
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.