Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

[lkaufman]

Chess960 knight odds would be very nice actually.

We did play a chess960 knight odds match at 45' + 15" with FM John Meyer, whose strength then was around 2120 FIDE. Komodo won 4 to 0, despite losing to him around the same time by 3 to 1 at normal knight odds. So it made a huge difference. Both my son IM Raymond Kaufman and I have played chess960 rapid games with Komodo at knight odds on chess.com, generally coming out behind. So I agree, chess960 knight odds might be about fair with 2500 GM at 15' + 10". But I'm not ready to concede today's games, I learned some things from yesterday's games.

[jp]

Both my son IM Raymond Kaufman and I have played chess960 rapid games with Komodo at knight odds on chess.com, generally coming out behind. So I agree, chess960 knight odds might be about fair with 2500 GM at 15' + 10". But I'm not ready to concede today's games, I learned some things from yesterday's games.

Yes, and if chess960-N is a little too hard for the GM, you can just give him a little more time than 15' + 10".

Smerdon thinks he was lucky with the opening in game 3, but he was getting the French Defence he wanted every game, and the commentators thought his opening position was good every game.

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Game 4: Dutch Defence!!
Stonewall!
Miro says you can't exchange pieces easily.

Again, after 7 moves, Miro and Toth think the game is over in the human's favor.

[jp]

0-1. Smerdon wins easily.

Smerdon predicts 2 more Stonewalls. So do I.

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Game 5: Komodo tries Nf3 and b3.

Toth thinks this is going to be an "exact replica" of the previous game.

[jp]

Miro thinks N odds is not about the computer strength. He says it's just a mathematical task for Smerdon to trade all the pieces.

Smerdon sacs the b3 pawn in order to exchange Queens.

But now Smerdon has an awkward technical endgame BNPP vs BPPP to convert. And he's down on time.

But he's collected all the pawns now and will win. Miro and Toth are impressed that he could do that low on time when he's only a 2500 GM.

Smerdon seals the match 4-1.

[Chessqueen]

Miro thinks N odds is not about the computer strength. He says it's just a mathematical task for Smerdon to trade all the pieces.

Smerdon sacs the b3 pawn in order to exchange Queens.

But now Smerdon has an awkward technical endgame BNPP vs BPPP to convert. And he's down on time.

But he's collected all the pawns now and will win. Miro and Toth are impressed that he could do that low on time when he's only a 2500 GM.

Smerdon seals the match 4-1.

A 2500 FIDE rated player will Never be defeated by a computer with a Knight odds in the Next 10 Years in Normal or standard chess. What people are confusing here is the high computer rating assigned by different engines testing sites based on computer versus computer matches which really does NOT translate into Computer versus Humans with plenty of time for the human GM to think for theirs moves. If the human correspondent Champion play versus any engine the engine would NOT be able to give the human correspondent champion a Knight for a pawn or two pawns odds. I can only see Komodo in the near future defeating probably a 2400 Fide rated with a knight odds, but it will take the engines several upgrades, of course in fast time control od less than 15 minutes per games the computers are unbeatable. But again lets NOT take those high computer rating that were obtained based on pitting engines versus engines too seriously. Computer in standard time control will not be able to beat Carlsen with two pawns odds in the Next 15 years.

[jp]

0-1. Smerdon wins easily.

Smerdon predicts 2 more Stonewalls. So do I.

Prediction correct.

And Komodo is busted in the opening again. Komodo plays Rb1 followed by Rc1.
It's all over.

Miro and Toth put the Chess960-N idea to Smerdon in the break, and he did not sound keen.
He said, "Maybe another GM." He knows that's much harder for the human.

Miro repeats that it's not about the computer engine. With N odds, it's just a mathematical problem for the human.


Toth thinks Smerdon will now have to play chess, instead of just "trading pieces". But immediately Komodo offers a N exchange. Miro and Toth feel sad for the computer. They want to see Smerdon have to play chess.

[Chessqueen]

0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

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Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.

I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?

Komodo MCTS best chance is to play a Knight for a pawn, whereas the GM will remove one of his pawn and the engine his knight. Probably in 6 months Komodo NN might beat the same GM with a Knight Odd. You can probably raise the price to $150 for a Win and $50 for a Draw, if the GM accept to play the rest of the games tomorrow with a Knight for a pawn.

Komodo (both versions) already scored 2.5 out of 3 giving knight for pawn (details differed) to MVL and Naka, perhaps the two best rapid players in the world after MC. For a future match, GM Alex Lenderman suggested knight for tempo; White plays his move, Black uses his first move to "capture" the knight (remove it), and White gets a second move, presumably 1.e4 and 2.d4, then it's Black's turn. Philidor used to give this handicap. I think it is suitable for a midrange GM in rapid. It just needs a good name!

Yes, but that was with a time control of less than 10 minutes per side. I will bet that even IM Andras Toth, the announcer can take Komodo using the same time control as this match with a Knight Odds. With Fisher Random it might be different, but offer IM Andras Toth a chance to play Komodo a 6 match games Next month or even next week. Or a knight for tempo 6 games match.

[lkaufman]

0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.

I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?

Komodo MCTS best chance is to play a Knight for a pawn, whereas the GM will remove one of his pawn and the engine his knight. Probably in 6 months Komodo NN might beat the same GM with a Knight Odd. You can probably raise the price to $150 for a Win and $50 for a Draw, if the GM accept to play the rest of the games tomorrow with a Knight for a pawn.

Komodo (both versions) already scored 2.5 out of 3 giving knight for pawn (details differed) to MVL and Naka, perhaps the two best rapid players in the world after MC. For a future match, GM Alex Lenderman suggested knight for tempo; White plays his move, Black uses his first move to "capture" the knight (remove it), and White gets a second move, presumably 1.e4 and 2.d4, then it's Black's turn. Philidor used to give this handicap. I think it is suitable for a midrange GM in rapid. It just needs a good name!

Yes, but that was with a time control of less than 10 minutes per side. I will bet that even IM Andras Toth, the announcer can take Komodo using the same time control as this match with a Knight Odds. With Fisher Random it might be different, but offer IM Andras Toth a chance to play Komodo a 6 match games Next month or even next week. Or a knight for tempo 6 games match.

Well, the two knight for f7 pawn games with Naka and MVL were at 10' + 5" and 15' +2" respectively, not "less than 10 min", and Naka actually lost a game at knight for c7 pawn at 45' + 15" when he filled in for Yaacov Norwitz at the last moment when he couldn't connect. But if he had a chance to study it first I suppose he would have won. I think that knight for b7 or c7 is the fairest handicap for a 2600 or so GM at this 15' + 10" time control, or else full knight odds at chess960. Perhaps with a 2400 IM knight for tempo at this time control is fair. Full knight odds seems to be only okay for 2300 FIDE level player at this TC.

[jp]

I think that knight for b7 or c7 is the fairest handicap for a 2600 or so GM at this 15' + 10" time control, or else full knight odds at chess960. Perhaps with a 2400 IM knight for tempo at this time control is fair. Full knight odds seems to be only okay for 2300 FIDE level player at this TC.

Miro and Toth liked the idea of Chess960 N odds versus GM.

Certainly now Smerdon's laid an opening template for others to follow, it'd be hard for an engine to get anything against GMs all playing French Defences or Stonewall Dutches, which are hard to avoid.

[Chessqueen]

I think that knight for b7 or c7 is the fairest handicap for a 2600 or so GM at this 15' + 10" time control, or else full knight odds at chess960. Perhaps with a 2400 IM knight for tempo at this time control is fair. Full knight odds seems to be only okay for 2300 FIDE level player at this TC.

Miro and Toth liked the idea of Chess960 N odds versus GM.

Certainly now Smerdon's laid an opening template for others to follow, it'd be hard for an engine to get anything against GMs all playing French Defences or Stonewall Dutches, which are hard to avoid.

Can somebody post the 6 Six games here using this Format :
[pgn][Event ]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.04.03"]
[Round "2.7"]
[White "Komod MCTS"]
[Black "GM" ]
[ECO "A55"]
[Annotator "1.34;1.10"]
[PlyCount "154"]
[EventDate "2020.04.02"][/pgn]