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Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:48 pm
by Master Om
Ovyron wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:41 pm
Master Om wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:50 am
What u think I haven't tried? even in quiet positions there are other engines which can find moves. There are many SF flavors which can do it too.
If Stockfish flavors can find the best line that means a best line exists and the position isn't quiet enough. I'm specifically talking about positions where several top moves are equal, so it makes no difference which one you pick. In principle those don't have tactics (the presence of tactics makes some lines better than others), so you can do whatever you want, and Komodo can help showing a line that you like how it looks.

But if you don't mind your lines having the same piece moving all over the place and coming back to its original square, or moving a pawn one step and then another instead of just moving it two squares in one go (which are fine because there's NOTHING to do in the position), then you don't need Komodo to find non-dumb looking plans.

(note: this isn't about buying Komodo, but about using Komodo, since I'm talking about K11 and it has become free)
Houdini can do that too, So can Shredder 13. I still find Zappa mexico II good in suggestions although slow.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:22 pm
by Ovyron
Master Om wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Houdini can do that too, So can Shredder 13. I still find Zappa mexico II good in suggestions although slow.
There's positions quiet enough that Komodo 11 outperforms Houdini 6, though you do need to play with its settings (mainly Contempt, from 100 all the way to -100, but changing Reduction and Null Scale sometimes has its merits. Actually, the main problem is that if one is wrong and Komodo doesn't show anything useful all the attempts are a big waste of time, so to use it successfully one has to be able to "smell" what positions it'd be worthwhile to try it on, before trying it on, otherwise, yeah, Leela, Stockfish flavors and other top engines (shootouts to Fritz 15 with Mindbreaker settings (this is the third parenthesis layer) which still holds up) would take precedence.)

One thing that can be done with it is leading the game into positions with the least tactics, if you've noticed your opponent has higher tactical prowess this can be useful. If you're a tactical monster yourself I can see why this would be pretty useless.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:59 pm
by Dann Corbit
Regarding the sig: "Always Expect the Unexpected"

Of course, if you expect it, then it isn't unexpected.
It reminds me of the phrase, "Intoleration is a state no tolerant man can tolerate."

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:10 pm
by Ovyron
Krzysztof Grzelak has clarified on Rybka Forum that he did buy Komodo 13.3. The question is relevant for deciding to support the product and buy Komodo 14, or not. I reckon the biggest factor here is very high caliber competition that it has for free.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:24 am
by Krzysztof Grzelak
Ovyron wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:10 pm
Krzysztof Grzelak has clarified on Rybka Forum that he did buy Komodo 13.3. The question is relevant for deciding to support the product and buy Komodo 14, or not. I reckon the biggest factor here is very high caliber competition that it has for free.
I have never been on a forum Rybka. Gentlemen, do you feel good? You write to me about positions, I don't care. I'm interested in the Komodo engine, which is strong compared to other engines, and whether it is worth buying it. Komodo's biggest problem is that he can't play with Stockfish.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:30 pm
by AndrewGrant
Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 pm
Komodo - is it worth buying. That is the question.
Simple answer: Yes.

Its in the best interest of computer chess to support those who advance the field.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:03 pm
by Master Om
Ovyron wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:22 pm
Master Om wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Houdini can do that too, So can Shredder 13. I still find Zappa mexico II good in suggestions although slow.
There's positions quiet enough that Komodo 11 outperforms Houdini 6, though you do need to play with its settings (mainly Contempt, from 100 all the way to -100, but changing Reduction and Null Scale sometimes has its merits. Actually, the main problem is that if one is wrong and Komodo doesn't show anything useful all the attempts are a big waste of time, so to use it successfully one has to be able to "smell" what positions it'd be worthwhile to try it on, before trying it on, otherwise, yeah, Leela, Stockfish flavors and other top engines (shootouts to Fritz 15 with Mindbreaker settings (this is the third parenthesis layer) which still holds up) would take precedence.)

One thing that can be done with it is leading the game into positions with the least tactics, if you've noticed your opponent has higher tactical prowess this can be useful. If you're a tactical monster yourself I can see why this would be pretty useless.
>if you've noticed your opponent has higher tactical prowess this can be useful. If you're a tactical monster yourself I can see why this would be pretty useless.

Agree on that.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:08 pm
by Master Om
Dann Corbit wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:59 pm
Regarding the sig: "Always Expect the Unexpected"

Of course, if you expect it, then it isn't unexpected.
It reminds me of the phrase, "Intoleration is a state no tolerant man can tolerate."
>Of course, if you expect it, then it isn't unexpected.
It means since u can't predict the present u can't predict the future.
Its something that comes from Hinduism philosophy which says
Do your duty and don't expect the outcome as its not in your hands.

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:30 pm
by Ovyron
I apologize for confusing Krzysztof with someone else :oops:

Re: Komodo - is it worth it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:05 pm
by Paloma
Hi Ovyron,
have you seen this request for a graphic?

http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... 64#p834764