a killer was born last night.

[RogerC]

Hi, I spent 2 hours playing 5 games (Long time control 10m+10s) lc0 on a PC gamer 2080ti with Lc0 v0.23.3 vs Stockfish 200220 on my smartphone Oneplus 7t snapdragon 855+) and the result was 5 draws.

What i would like to point is the fact that my PC consumed a lot of energy (around 200 Watts in 2 hours) vs maximum 10 watts on my smartphone (50% of a little battery) and the result is same "strength".

The amount of energy needed for all NN engines is huge because they need the biggest graphic cards to be strong !

May be it is the time to create a new kind of tournaments to find the more energy efficient couple chess engines + platform ? Because LC0 will consume more and more energy as the graphics cards will grow and consume twice the energy by the end of the decade, it will inevitable be the winner but at what cost !

It's like comparing a car with 6L 12 cylinders vs 3L V6 bi-turbo the second will be as fast than the first one but more efficient and optimised.

[mwyoung]

Hi, I spent 2 hours playing 5 games (Long time control 10m+10s) lc0 on a PC gamer 2080ti with Lc0 v0.23.3 vs Stockfish 200220 on my smartphone Oneplus 7t snapdragon 855+) and the result was 5 draws.

What i would like to point is the fact that my PC consumed a lot of energy (around 200 Watts in 2 hours) vs maximum 10 watts on my smartphone (50% of a little battery) and the result is same "strength".

The amount of energy needed for all NN engines is huge because they need the biggest graphic cards to be strong !

May be it is the time to create a new kind of tournaments to find the more energy efficient couple chess engines + platform ? Because LC0 will consume more and more energy as the graphics cards will grow and consume twice the energy by the end of the decade, it will inevitable be the winner but at what cost !

It's like comparing a car with 12 cylinders vs V6 bi-turbo the second will be as fast than the first one but more efficient and optimised.

I keep seeing people concerned about the cost of running their computer. My energy here is cheap. Less then 11 cents per Kwh. What is your cost?
Playing right now. My computer playing no ponder is drawing around 325 watts. And runs 24/7. This cost me about 85 cents a day to run my matches.
1 can of beer cost me more a day.

[Ovyron]

This cost me about 85 cents a day to run my matches.

That's $25 extra per month, you could buy an extra 24 x 330 ml beer cans with that.

[mwyoung]

This cost me about 85 cents a day to run my matches.

That's $25 extra per month, you could buy an extra 24 x 330 ml beer cans with that.

I will take that into consideration. If I need more beer

My home is pretty energy efficient. And I just recently changed out all my 88 light bulbs in my home from CFL bulbs. To the much more energy efficient LED bulbs drawing only 16 watts each. GE had a great deal on their light bulbs, and cut the price to a 4 pack to only 99 cents. I bought 25 four pack light bulbs.

[mwyoung]

I can't find a release of 24.0, I guess it's still deemed as "unstable"?

https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/r ... 0.24.0-rc1

[corres]

Hi, I spent 2 hours playing 5 games (Long time control 10m+10s) lc0 on a PC gamer 2080ti with Lc0 v0.23.3 vs Stockfish 200220 on my smartphone Oneplus 7t snapdragon 855+) and the result was 5 draws.
What i would like to point is the fact that my PC consumed a lot of energy (around 200 Watts in 2 hours) vs maximum 10 watts on my smartphone (50% of a little battery) and the result is same "strength".
The amount of energy needed for all NN engines is huge because they need the biggest graphic cards to be strong !
May be it is the time to create a new kind of tournaments to find the more energy efficient couple chess engines + platform ? Because LC0 will consume more and more energy as the graphics cards will grow and consume twice the energy by the end of the decade, it will inevitable be the winner but at what cost !
It's like comparing a car with 6L 12 cylinders vs 3L V6 bi-turbo the second will be as fast than the first one but more efficient and optimised.

If you not interested in to get the maximum Elo it is enough for you really a smartphone. Maybe there are others who though like you so I think it is not an impossible thing to organize such a competition. My system consume about 800 W/hours so I surely will not a participant those competition.

[corres]

I can't find a release of 24.0, I guess it's still deemed as "unstable"?

https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/r ... 0.24.0-rc1

The link is working.
What is your issue about it?

[corres]

Getting really good early results with this NN 62464. https://training.lczero.org/
62464 is the high peak on the graph. Policy temp 2.1
...

What are the other parameters?

Default except for cs 2000000
Default for sf 32 threads 4gb ht
CPU 2950x vs 2080ti

Thanks.
I run a short test with 200218Stockfish and I got a different result:
Stockfish : lc0-62464 = 1 : 0 19draw (20 games)
Parameters were as above.
I am afraid the series of 62 nets are still not a terrorist.

I am getting different results. Now playing the NN with Lc0 24.0. Score +2 =16 -0. That is a combined score of +7 =31 -0.
The new Lc0 24.0 has major changes from Lc0 23.3. But so far playing ok.

I repeated the test with kuidee-parameters and policy temperature 2.10
The new result is:
62464 : Stockfisch = 4 : 3 (13 draw) 20 games.
So where is the terrorist?
Nowhere.

"So where is the terrorist?"
It is playing online. Now with a combined score of +9 =52 -1. Killer!

In this case use it with good health. I do not ask from it.

[mclane]

One can use Lc0 on a hardware with much lower power, and even on a hardware that is very limited it produces high quality games.

IMO Lc0 is like HIRES in audio area.
Before we had CD as the highest available quality.
But cd were 80ies. And only 16 bit.
Todays HIRES music is 24 bit and comes very close to reality.

This means there is a quality difference compared to a cd.


Same with LC0. The chess it produces is better than that Stockfish or other AB engines produce.

[zullil]

I can't find a release of 24.0, I guess it's still deemed as "unstable"?

https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/r ... 0.24.0-rc1

It's a release candidate, not the finalized 0.24.0. That's all.