Lc0's strength is not subject to the "new" parameters. They are only new to you. People that know things. Have known for a long time that the default settings are not the best. And don't use the default settings to test Lc0.
SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
"The worst thing that can happen to a forum is a running wild attacking moderator(HGM) who is not corrected by the community." - Ed Schröder
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
Rather than trying to pick a pointless fight, the “new” parameters can be found here: http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72854
Of course the people that “know”, know that a big grid search for parameters at different time controls is expensive, long winded and not fun. That’s why these “special settings” only come along every once in a while, probably aren’t best or even good at most time controls, and are passed around like an illicit drug or secret handshake.
Of course the people that “know”, know that a big grid search for parameters at different time controls is expensive, long winded and not fun. That’s why these “special settings” only come along every once in a while, probably aren’t best or even good at most time controls, and are passed around like an illicit drug or secret handshake.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
There is no pointless fight. But do not act like people did not know before today. That the default settings are garbage. Many many people have know this before today. And have posted this here, and on other sites, and with better settings. And if you think you know things, and have no clue what you are talking about. Then you need to say so...and stop acting like the "new" settings is a sudden revelation. This denigrates the hard work as you have described. By many people that have put time into testing the neural networks correctly.dkappe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:58 am Rather than trying to pick a pointless fight, the “new” parameters can be found here: http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72854
Of course the people that “know”, know that a big grid search for parameters at different time controls is expensive, long winded and not fun. That’s why these “special settings” only come along every once in a while, probably aren’t best or even good at most time controls, and are passed around like an illicit drug or secret handshake.
In Lasko's own words.
"In the past I tried to fiddle with Lc0 engine parameters, it was always within even 1 SD error margins, it is hard to have many games at acceptable TC with Leela. Besides that, I do not understand what many of these parameters do precisely, and just blindly trying here and there is useless."
Enough said....
Last edited by mwyoung on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The worst thing that can happen to a forum is a running wild attacking moderator(HGM) who is not corrected by the community." - Ed Schröder
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
Really? This marks the first time that people test chess engines without having fun in the process.That's as bad as playing chess without enjoying the game, just for some of the wins, where I'd give the advice to play some other game (that is enjoyed despite the losses); here I'd tell them to just switch to a hobby that is fun to them, and leave these parameter testing to people that enjoy the process. You don't want to wake up years later and wonder where did all the time go.
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
Laskos wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:58 pmDo you know if Lc0 engine (0.23.2) overcame 70-80k nps threshold in the opening and midgame? Also, the strength scaling from 2 GPUs to 4 GPUs has improved? It seemed bad to me until months ago.
Typical speeds in the openings are of the order 100M nps for Stockfish and some 50k nps for T60 larger net?
Lc0 speed in opening and middle game is approx 50k ( between 30 k and 70k).
This larger net get benefits from 4 GPU whereas T40 cant use more than 3 ( practically 2, the third one has minimal benefit).
SF is around 100 to 110 Mnps.
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
Come on man, please learn how to structure a sentence.mwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:35 am
There is no pointless fight. But do not act like people did not know before today. That the default settings are garbage. Many many people have know this before today. And have posted this here, and on other sites, and with better settings. And if you think you know things, and have no clue what you are talking about. Then you need to say so...and stop acting like the "new" settings is a sudden revelation. This denigrates the hard work as you have described. By many people that have put time into testing the neural networks correctly.
You do not start a new sentence with "And".
You do not start a new sentence with "But".
Whether the point you make is right or wrong, people do judge you (and the quality of your arguments) by your level of literacy in your native tongue.
If you want to brush up your prose, I can recommend you start with the fantastic book Elements of Style.
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-C ... BYCQ5MVDQA
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
Tuning a set of parameters in a big grid search is very inefficient and I would agree that it’s not fun at all.dkappe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:58 am Rather than trying to pick a pointless fight, the “new” parameters can be found here: http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72854
Of course the people that “know”, know that a big grid search for parameters at different time controls is expensive, long winded and not fun. That’s why these “special settings” only come along every once in a while, probably aren’t best or even good at most time controls, and are passed around like an illicit drug or secret handshake.
Still, any method used for tuning at some point runs into the curse of dimensionality - some sooner than others.
If you are fine with only finding a local optimum (maybe you did good work in restricting all the parameter ranges), then local search methods like CLOP can work, but usually the optimization landscapes become more and more chaotic, the more parameters you add.
Here I disagree with dkappe in that designing optimization techniques which work in "higher" dimensions with the signal-to-noise ratio of chess is certainly fun .
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Re: SF 11 vs T60 Lc0
In the meantime, there a plenty of testing-results, that are showing a clear Elo-gain, when Lc0 plays with your Kiudee-setting. Congrats for this!Kiudee wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:01 am Tuning a set of parameters in a big grid search is very inefficient and I would agree that it’s not fun at all.
Still, any method used for tuning at some point runs into the curse of dimensionality - some sooner than others.
If you are fine with only finding a local optimum (maybe you did good work in restricting all the parameter ranges), then local search methods like CLOP can work, but usually the optimization landscapes become more and more chaotic, the more parameters you add.
Here I disagree with dkappe in that designing optimization techniques which work in "higher" dimensions with the signal-to-noise ratio of chess is certainly fun .
My comparable testrun of Lc0 0.23.1 LS 12.2 with Kiudee-setting (Lc0 default result is already in my longtime-testrun list(https://www.sp-cc.de/nn-longtime-testing.htm)) is running and will take 4-5 more days. But looks very promising at this early stage, too.
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