First knight odds match with IM Saturday

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lkaufman
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First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by lkaufman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:35 am

For the first time ever, an engine (Komodo, probably the MCTS nn dev. version) will play a rapid (15' + 10") knight odds match on chess.com with an I.M., namely my son Raymond Kaufman, this Saturday Jan 4 at 4 pm Eastern time. Four games are planned, alternating g1/b1 knight odds. Look for games of "playkomodo". We'll post games here whenever time permits. As some of you may recall, 77 year old FM Larry Gilden lost 6 to zero under these conditions, but with 30' + 10" scored 1.5 to 3.5. But Ray is a full class stronger and less than half of Gilden's age, so I would expect a close match. While Ray is a rather low rated IM, he tied for first in the Canadian Open in 2018 so he's a strong player, and also rather good at blitz and rapid. If Komodo wins the match we can make a case for a higher-profile knight odds rapid match against a more prominent IM or even a GM. If not we'll have to improve Komodo a bit before trying that.
Komodo rules!

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Ovyron
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am

Hoping to see some live broadcast with commentary (I know I sound like a broken record, but I expect that one day the platform where one of such matches will be broadcast will be announced.)

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AdminX
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by AdminX » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:44 am

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am
Hoping to see some live broadcast with commentary (I know I sound like a broken record, but I expect that one day the platform where one of such matches will be broadcast will be announced.)
I second that! Look forward to viewing the live games as well. Thanks for the heads up Larry. :D
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Ovyron
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:45 pm

AdminX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:44 am
Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am
Hoping to see some live broadcast with commentary (I know I sound like a broken record, but I expect that one day the platform where one of such matches will be broadcast will be announced.)
I second that! Look forward to viewing the live games as well. Thanks for the heads up Larry. :D
:)

Did you watch this one against Vachier-Lagrave? That's the stuff!

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AdminX
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by AdminX » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:27 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:45 pm
AdminX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:44 am
Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am
Hoping to see some live broadcast with commentary (I know I sound like a broken record, but I expect that one day the platform where one of such matches will be broadcast will be announced.)
I second that! Look forward to viewing the live games as well. Thanks for the heads up Larry. :D
:)

Did you watch this one against Vachier-Lagrave? That's the stuff!
No, I mssed that one, but I am streaming it now to the big screen. It should hold me over till Saturday! :D Thanks
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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lkaufman
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by lkaufman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am
Hoping to see some live broadcast with commentary (I know I sound like a broken record, but I expect that one day the platform where one of such matches will be broadcast will be announced.)
Chess.com is only interested in providing live commentary for matches with "big names", which cost real money (we do give small prizes for wins and draws (triple for wins) in all matches). Hopefully we'll have such a match before too long. Saturday's match can be regarded as preparation for such matches, in terms of determining fair time limits for knight odds, finding flaws in play at knight odds or in the online play, etc. We've already pretty much proven that we can give two pawns (as White) or f7 and two moves or knight for f7 pawn or the equivalents to strong GMs in rapid play, but in the opening a knight is worth nearly four pawns so we need to establish that giving knight odds to a GM is not ridiculous, so an IM is the obvious step. If knight odds proves unreasonable for GMs, there is still f7 and three moves as an in-between step, which we tried twice at slow rapid, losing to GM Simon Williams but beating IM Danny Rensch. But beating a GM in a knight odds match is the "holy grail" of chess, the ultimate challenge.
Komodo rules!

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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by mbabigian » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:41 pm

Larry, you'd make a fine commentator for the average player and would cost nothing. If Chess.com isn't interested, dump them and choose a different venue next time. Not a big fan of chess.com anyway. I'd rather see lichess grow to support more and more mixed media events to promote chess.

In the long run, I see live events with video commentary and other advanced features, gaining larger audiences and increasing interest in the game. The emotional and human contribution to an event like this cannot be underestimated.

My 2 cents.

lkaufman
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by lkaufman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:04 pm

mbabigian wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:41 pm
Larry, you'd make a fine commentator for the average player and would cost nothing. If Chess.com isn't interested, dump them and choose a different venue next time. Not a big fan of chess.com anyway. I'd rather see lichess grow to support more and more mixed media events to promote chess.

In the long run, I see live events with video commentary and other advanced features, gaining larger audiences and increasing interest in the game. The emotional and human contribution to an event like this cannot be underestimated.

My 2 cents.
KomodoChess and chess.com are partners, they support us in various ways. When we do a high-profile match like the MVL and Nakamura matches, we split the cost. They just aren't interested in providing funding or commentary for matches with players that their membership won't recognize (or at least have a GM title). In theory we could arrange for some streaming of self-commentary on our own, but I don't have the knowledge or time to set that up myself. I suppose I could learn to do it for matches I played myself; if so what is the simplest way to do this for games played on chess.com that wouldn't require chess.com personnel to be involved?
Komodo rules!

mbabigian
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by mbabigian » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:45 am

If you are suggesting providing commentary for matches where you are the player, that is an exceptionally bad idea. Your level of play is dramatically impacted when essentially talking to yourself. The comentator must be a non-participant.

On the subject of live streaming, gamers (video gamers) do it like crazy these days. A simple google search will provide you with any assistance you may need. The equipment is not expensive. A high quality headset with mic (or quality desk Mic) and a good quality webcam are the only hardware requirements. Several grandmasters have YouTube channels etc, you could also ask them for input before putting things together. All NVidia video cards come with software to stream your screen with you PIP in the corner for such things and I'd be surprised if AMD doesn't have similar options.

I forgot about your ties with chess.com, but since most of your matches are played by others, it still leaves you available, should you set up your home PC. I'd find it extremely sad if chess.com blocked such an idea. Viewership will only go up with live commentary, regardless of who does it. Seems self-defeating to stand in the way.

Wish your son luck. I'm rooting for him.

lkaufman
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Re: First knight odds match with IM Saturday

Post by lkaufman » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:26 am

mbabigian wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:45 am
If you are suggesting providing commentary for matches where you are the player, that is an exceptionally bad idea. Your level of play is dramatically impacted when essentially talking to yourself. The comentator must be a non-participant.

On the subject of live streaming, gamers (video gamers) do it like crazy these days. A simple google search will provide you with any assistance you may need. The equipment is not expensive. A high quality headset with mic (or quality desk Mic) and a good quality webcam are the only hardware requirements. Several grandmasters have YouTube channels etc, you could also ask them for input before putting things together. All NVidia video cards come with software to stream your screen with you PIP in the corner for such things and I'd be surprised if AMD doesn't have similar options.

I forgot about your ties with chess.com, but since most of your matches are played by others, it still leaves you available, should you set up your home PC. I'd find it extremely sad if chess.com blocked such an idea. Viewership will only go up with live commentary, regardless of who does it. Seems self-defeating to stand in the way.

Wish your son luck. I'm rooting for him.
Well, the Nakamura and MVL matches were both self-commented, as were several others, but I'm no 2800 player and it probably would not be a good idea for me to self-comment. I don't think chess.com would mind any broadcast that didn't involve their personnel or cost them money. I probably already have all the needed hardware. I just don't know how to use it for something like this, someone will have to teach me. I really know nothing about social media, YouTube, streaming etc. For me a cellphone is still just a device to make phone calls.
I hope Ray plays his best, and that if Komodo does tie or win the match, it won't be due to simple blunders. Ray did well at knight odds even in "slow blitz" a year or two ago, but now Komodo is a lot stronger giving odds to humans than it was then. But masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing to another master, so knight odds means starting the game in a resignable position! The very idea seems preposterous, yet we have already been successful against Gilden (and drawn two 10' + 5" games with Jeremy Kane, who is about the same strength as Ray), so who knows?
Komodo rules!

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