SF 11 on Christmas?

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Paloma
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SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by Paloma » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:52 pm

Suspiciously quiet on abrok, sf11 on the way?

Jouni
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by Jouni » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:44 pm

What's is happening in this (CCC game 119):



SF has +147,92 long time and draw. And they claim 7 piece syzygy access. :oops: :(. Again GHI thing?
Jouni

Damir
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by Damir » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:01 pm

Maybe bug in tablebases ? corrupt tbs ? :( :( :oops:

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mclane
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by mclane » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

chrisw
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by chrisw » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:26 pm

mclane wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm
Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.
Nonsense. Stockfish brilliant project is Communism 2.0 in real actual action.

Uri Blass
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by Uri Blass » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:27 pm

SF was closest to winning at move 57 when the syzygy tablebases say
Ra5+ DTZ 36 but played Nf3 that is only DTZ 54

I think that the problem is that the stockfish team do not test from random tablebases positions and only test from random opening positions.
They should test patches from random 7 piece tablabases positions to see if there is an idea that can give an improvement in these cases.

It is possible that some patch give an improvement in 7 piece tablabases positions but is counterproductive in normal games but even in this case it is good to know it and it is possible to use the patch only when the engine get to 7 piece tablbases positions.

mehmet1921
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by mehmet1921 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:36 pm

mclane wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm
Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.
By this kind of progress there is ~450 elo progress since Stockfish 2.3.1 in 7 years.

http://www.cegt.net/40_40%20Rating%20Li ... liste.html

Stockfish passes 3500 elo at 4 core. I don't know why 3500+ elo isn' t enough for you.

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mclane
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by mclane » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:56 pm

chrisw wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:26 pm
mclane wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm
Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.
Nonsense. Stockfish brilliant project is Communism 2.0 in real actual action.
Nonsense. Stockfish is deep searcher. It will lose the race against LC0 or any other intelligent idea because it the others play better chess.
Which is why programs seem to keep making progress on the SSDF list. And why reviewers, either dumb, or with axes to grind, wax lyrical about the latest programs.
And
So I call it counting beans - useless for us humans.

Now, take a knowledge program, you can play it and see the play style. You can try and work out what it does and why. There'll be a reason, based on human chess heuristics. The game has plan, and flow, and doesn't consist of hidden minefields. It won't grind you down by search, it will try speculative ideas which it might, or might not, be able to get to work. You can see the speculative ideas, and try them yourself. I think you can, as a human, relate to this type of program. If you know the programmer, maybe you can see patterns into the program that come from him, and so on. I think these types of programs are infused with some force, in so far as any chunk of silicon can be.

I hate materialists.
This race between Komodo and Stockfish leads to nowhere.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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mclane
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by mclane » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:01 pm

mehmet1921 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:36 pm
mclane wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm
Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.
By this kind of progress there is ~450 elo progress since Stockfish 2.3.1 in 7 years.

http://www.cegt.net/40_40%20Rating%20Li ... liste.html

Stockfish passes 3500 elo at 4 core. I don't know why 3500+ elo isn' t enough for you.
Stockfish is not the first fast searcher I met.

And it was always the same with them.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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mclane
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Re: SF 11 on Christmas?

Post by mclane » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:11 pm

Stockfish is not the first fast searcher I met.

And it was always the same with them.
It’s completely unimportant if stockfish 10 is 40 elo weaker then Stockfish 11.

The people will download the latest version but they don’t really care what is different or if it is different or if it is 40 ELO stronger.
Because these 40 ELO do not really exist.
As I said you can take stockfish 10 on a faster computer and would have the same results.

Do you think anybody is interested in a program that increases playing strength from 3400 to 3440 ?

Maybe mark Lefler or Larry Kaufmann is interested. They need to make Komodo stronger.
But the rest of the world needs no stockfish 11.

Because there is no progress in quality of moves.
There is only difference in ELO.

If you have a car that drives 200 km/h and the successor of this car drives 220 km/h
This is nice. But it is no real thing that shocks the people. It’s no quality difference.

You can even let this car drive 300 km/h.
That will not make the customers more convinced.

As long as the quality of the ride is not better.

The real change comes not from stockfish but from LC0.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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