I'll run a test to be sure...Ponti wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:23 amHow strong is it at 50% ?
[pgn]
[Event "Blitz 3 min+ 2 sec/move"]
[Site "Ryzen 1800x"]
[Date "2019.12.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Ponti,A."]
[Black "Minic 1.20 (C) @50%"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B15"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "00:23:40"]
[Variation "Gurgenidze: 4.e5"]
[WhiteElo "1931"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "80"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. e4 g6 2. d4 c6 3. Nc3 d5 4. e5 a5 5. Be3 Be6 6. Qd2 Bd7 7. h4 e6 8. h5
gxh5 9. Be2 h6 10. Bxh5 Ne7 11. g4 b5 12. Nh3 Na6 13. Ne2 Bg7 14. f4 Qc7
15. Ng3 Nb4 16. a3 Na6 17. O-O Qd8 18. f5 exf5 19. gxf5 Qb6 20. f6 Bxf6 21.
Rxf6 Bxh3 22. Rxf7 Rg8 23. Kh2 Bg4 24. Raf1 Kd7 25. Qf2 Be6 26. Rh7 Qc7 27.
Nf5 Bxf5 28. Qxf5+ Kd8 29. Qe6 Ra7 30. Rff7 Qd7 31. Qxh6 Kc8 32. Rxe7 Qxe7
33. Rxe7 Rxe7 34. Bg5 Rd7 35. Bg4 Nb8 36. Bxd7+ Kb7 37. Bh3 Kb6 38. Bf6 Re8
39. e6 Rg8 40. Bg7 c5 {Black resigns} 1-0
[/pgn]
Engine's "ELO" revisited
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
xr_a_y
- Posts: 1871
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:28 pm
- Location: France
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
-
xr_a_y
- Posts: 1871
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:28 pm
- Location: France
Re: mimic : syzygy
24 score is indeed TBWIN (20) + 4 (eval). I'll try to understand why Minic is not mating here. Thanks again for the feedback.Canoike wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:42 pm The compilation did not handle the syzygy egtb because I had not properly understood the doc : "activate WITH_SYZYGY definition at compile time". I had simply typed "./build.sh WITH_SYZYGY". This is the reason why the output executable named was "minic_WITH_SYZYGY_linux_x64".
I went to the "minic.cc" file and removed the two slashes in order to have this line : "#define WITH_SYZYGY". I compiled again "./build.sh" and now when using the command line and testing 2 knights vs 1 pawn (difficult ending, no engine has the knowledge for it:)
seems to work fine. Moreover I had compiled Fathom and by reading the instructions, I ran successfully the test.Code: Select all
# Info 2019-12-22 22:22:32-942: From config file, syzygyPath : /home/user/jeux/echecs/syzygy/ # Info 2019-12-22 22:22:33-796: Init tb from path /home/user/jeux/echecs/syzygy/ # Info 2019-12-22 22:22:33-819: MAX_TB_MEN: 5 # Info 2019-12-22 22:22:33-819: Reading fen 8/4k3/3p4/3K4/8/2N1N3/8/8 w - - 0 1 # Info 2019-12-22 22:22:33-829: TBHit1 204 # Info 2019-12-22 22:22:33-829: TBHit2 41
Concerning the GUI, I used Xboard and Arena for Linux. I got a strange result. From the FEN position given above, in a 5 minutes ending, the evaluation was around +24 then minic chose to play inaccurate moves giving too much space to the weak King. The evaluation dropped at +3. Of course it was unable to mate.
By the way Minic xboard should have no issue at all in xboard.
-
Guenther
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 am
- Location: Regensburg, Germany
- Full name: Guenther Simon
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
I don't know your strength, but I would always prefer max. strength programs vs. artificially limited programs.Ponti wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:18 amNIce list !ydebilloez wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:22 am Try any of these XBoard/UCI engines:
These should remain bad even at fastest CPU. Start from bottom for weakest.
I got trouble in getting the binaries for a lot of them, good luck.
1: Fimbulwinter 5.02
...
40: Pos-1.20
In fact I was searching for an engine with "elo strengh" feature (like crafty, prodeo, shredder... ). I've downloaded some of these... I can beat Fimbulwinter without much effort. I've played Pos-1.20 at freechess.org, checkmated it in 3 moves.
The programs listed above are ofc at the very low end.
You could also look at the rating classification column at my XB/UCI chronology and start with a group may be C2 first.
(which is roughly done in groups, not hopelessly trying to give exact numbers, which are limited by error bars anyway)
Note that the rating for those prgrams could well be 100+ compared to Humans.
(It is based on GURL2/3 or CCRL)
For conveniance and in case you don't know how to use filters in google sheets I compiled a simplified
list from the chronology with all programs classified between C1 and C3.
(A star (*) after the RC means, that there is some uncertainty due to either not much games, or a lot of current progress,
which means it might have changed upwards lately, but wasn't checked yet with newest releases)
Code: Select all
Rating: Class
> 3100 A1
2900-3100 A2
2700-2900 A3
2500-2700 B1
2300-2500 B2
2100-2300 B3
1900-2100 C1
1700-1900 C2
1500-1700 C3
1300-1500 D
1100-1300 E
< 1100 FCode: Select all
Name Vers.First Vers.Last YM-Last RC Prot Author
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ajetac 2.09 2.73b 2005-10 C1 XB Perez
ArabianKnight 0.48 1.55 2017-01 C1 XB Gardyjan
Ax 0.1 0.8 2002-07 C1 XB Nguyen
BibiChess 0.5 - 2006-05 C1 UCI Braesch/Burgot
Blitzkrieg build 327 LC build 337 2016-08 C1 UCI Neogi
BSC 2.0 3.9 2011-08 C1 XB Robert
Bubble 1.32 1.5 2011-01 C1 XB Otaviano
Ceibo 0.363 0.41 2018-09 C1 UCI Rojo
ChessMind 0.80 0.82 2010-06 C1 UCI Hemmerich
Cilian 4.07 4.14 2004-07 C1 XB Scheurer
Cinnamon 0.01 2.2a 2019-04 C1 UCI Cannella
Clueless 1.00.00 1.4 2007-03 C1 UCI Fett
Colchess 5.0 8.0 JA 2008-05 C1 XB Frayn
CPW 070808 JA 1.1.8 SDC 2019-06 C1 UCI Koziol/Moshammer
Cupcake 1.0 1.1c 2016-03 C1 XB Honeycutt
Dabbaba 0.98 JA 7.49 JA 2013-02 C1 XB Nielsen
DelphiMax# 2.3 2.9 2006-04 C1 UCI Bauer
Duke 1.0 3.0 2003-01 C1 XB Pivotto
Ecce 1.0 r508 - 2014-11 C1 UCI Gruzdev/Melnikov
Elephant 1.0 1.06 2004-10 C1 XB Luessen
Enigma 1.01 1.14 2004-06 C1 XB Przybyla
Etude 0.11 0.12 2007-10 C1 XB/UCI Hales
Faile 0.6 1.4 DC (=1.4.4) 2001-02 C1 XB Regimbald
Fortress 1.46 1.62 2000-05 C1 XB Damiani
Franky 0.3 1.0 2019-02 C1 UCI Kopp
FreeChess 2.13b 2.17b 2007-02 C1 UCI Maklyakov
Freyr 0.96 1.069 JA 2010-10 C1 XB Fortuna
GChessIV 0.2.0 - 2010-03 C1 XB Griffini
Gerbil 0.1 0.2 2001-10 C1 XB Moreland
Gullydeckel 2.13 2.16pl1 2007-01 C1 XB Borriss
Heracles 0.30 0.6.16 2008-08 C1 UCI Tempet
Hopeless 0.31 0.49 2007-11 C1 XB Koziol
JanWillem 1.04 1.13 2004-12 C1 XB Winkelhagen
King's Out 0.237 0.242 JA 2008-08 C1 XB Nuernberger
KKFChess 2.5.10 2.67 beta 2004-10 C1 XB/UCI Fan
La Dame Blanche 2.0b 2.0c 1999-01 C1 XB Huget
LadyGambit 1.0 - 2002-05 C1 XB Pivotto
Laurifer 1.0 - 2005-06 C1 XB Lubczynski
Matheus 1.3 2.3 2004-03 C1 XB/UCI Forte
MatMoi 7.15.0-CCT - 2010-03 C1 XB Page
micro-Max 3.2 4.8m 2008-01 C1 XB Muller
Monik 1.8 2.27 TP 2018-11 C1 XB Lacombe
MrChess 1.00.05 2.1 2001-09 C1 XB Han
Muriel 0.71 - 2002-04 C1 XB Petit de Gabriel
Mustang 1.5 4.97 2007-12 C1 XB Korneychuk
Oberon 0.0.4 - 2011-02 C1 XB Koziol
Plywood 1.6 1.73x 2003-11 C1 XB Bumgardner
PoorLittlePinkus revf3e3382 JA rev1661571 JA 2009-12 C1 UCI Milde
QueeNy 0.16 - 2011-07 C1 XB Muller
Reger 0.05 0.09 2009-04 C1 XB van den Bosch
Requiem 0.48 0.53 2002-09 C1 XB Salminen
Rival 1.0 1.18 2006-12 C1 UCI Moreton
Roce 0.03 0.0395 2011-01 C1 UCI Hartmann
SamChess - - 2005-11 C1 XB Kreuzer
Schola 1.0.0 1.10 2009-08 C1 XB Platt
SCP 1.0 JA 1.0r JA 2010-02 C1 XB Stanback
Sierzant 0.26 0.31 2006-12 C1 XB Rostek
SilkeChess 1.2.1209 - 2002-12 C1 UCI Steinfeld
Simontacchi 1.00 VC1 1.81a 2003-08 C1 XB/UCI Maxim
Sissa 0.03 2.00 JA 2010-06 C1 UCI Mandin
Slibo 0.44 JA 0.51 JA 2010-04 C1 XB Piez
SmallPotato 0.31 0.70TP 2014-01 C1 XB Dubovsky
Smash (Deep) 0.1 1.03a JV 2014-01 C1 UCI(XB) Sambati
Soldat 0.18 4 beta 2017-09 C1 XB Giusfredi
SSEChessII 1.31 2.050 DC 2005-12 C1 XB Slutzky
Surprise 4.1 4.3b13 JA 2007-10 C1 XB Schüle
Warrior 1.00 1.03 2006-10 C1 XB Saveljevs
Woodpecker 1.0 2.11.5 2010-04 C1 XB Korniloff
Zeta 0.99a 0.99m 2019-07 C1 XB Matovic
Abbess 2016.12.11 2018.02.07 2018-03 C1* XB Pope
Achillees 1.0 LC - 2019-09 C1* UCI Diaz
AdaChess 1.0 3.6 2019-08 C1* XB Iavicoli
Alcibiades 0.1 rev1374 LC 0.30 TM 2017-05 C1* UCI Pandurski
BeLL 0.0.41 - 2019-03 C1* XB Anuliero
Chess4J 0.1 JA 3.5 2018-11 C1* XB Swafford
Chesser# 1.9 2.0 2015-03 C1* XB Syed
Clever Girl rev160 LC - 2018-01 C1* UCI Kasmann
Eagle 0.3 0.75 2006-03 C1* UCI Scharn
Eia 0.1 JA 0.3 2014-07 C1* UCI Kurgin
Fairy-Max 4.8 5.0.b3 2016-09 C1* XB Muller
GearHeart 0.16 TP - 2019-04 C1* UCI Odom
Goldfish# 1.11.2 1.13.0 2019-04 C1* UCI Samseth
Gunborg 0.41 1.35 2015-07 C1* UCI Torbjörn
Heretic 0.3 - 2012-01 C1* XB Sedlak
HoiChess 0.2.1 0.22.0 2018-05 C1* XB Ruckdeschel
IACH 0.35 0.56z 2006-11 C1* XB Diaz
Jabba 1.0 13032012 2012-03 C1* XB/UCI Allbert
LittleWing 0.0.1 HK 0.6.0 2019-12 C1* XB Ollivier
Mobmat 0.903d - 2017-04 C1* UCI Sempronio
Monochrome rev172 TM - 2017-06 C1* UCI Brades/Charan/Koskeridis
Mora# 1.00 1.10 2019-11 C1* UCI Arro
Presbyter 1.0.0 1.3.0 2015-12 C1* UCI Wilson
Sapeli 1.0 TM 1.66 GS 2019-12 C1* UCI Helminen
Sjaak II r149 1.5.0r 2017-03 C1* XB/UCI Glebbeek
Smirf BC171a MS180g 2014-09 C1* TMCI-XB Scharnagl
Snowy rev19 LM 0.2 2018-01 C1* UCI Creighton
Squared-Chess 1.10 1.3.0 2018-11 C1* UCI Triller
Tony's Chess 0.01 0.03 2019-08 C1* XB Mokonen
Vice 1.0 1.1 2014-01 C1* XB/UCI Allbert
Wowl rev76 LC 1.38 2018-09 C1* UCI Yip
Wuttang# rev2 LC - 2017-10 C1* UCI Patel
Adamant 0.1 1.7 2006-01 C2 XB Varentsov
AlChess 0.5 1.84 2015-12 C2 UCI(XB) Lobanov
Awesome 1.0 1.73 2009-06 C2 XB Jordan
Beaches 0.96 2.32b JA 2010-10 C2 XB Pope
Belzebub 0.4 0.67 2008-02 C2 XB Kamowski
BeRoChess 2012.04.10.0049 2012.04.10.0112 2012-04 C2 XB/UCI Rosseaux
BremboCE 0.1 0.62 JA 2009-10 C2 XB Cisana
Cecir# 2.3 3.5 2006-04 C2 XB Carvalho
Celestial 1.0 - 2019-05 C2 UCI Speare
Chenard 1.136 JA 20150804 2015-08 C2 XB Cross
ChessterfieldCL i4 i5a JA 2007-01 C2 XB Lüscher
Damas 1.0c 9 2010-01 C2 XB Mota
Deepov 0.1 0.41 2017-03 C2 UCI Goussault/Hedjazian
Echelon 1.03 - 2006-07 C2 XB Gasch
Elf# 0.2c 1.30 2005-04 C2 XB Bleda
Embracer 1.0 1.12 2003-04 C2 XB Antonsson
Fauce 0.2 0.41c 2002-09 C2 XB Farina
Gargamella# 0.01 0.50 2002-06 C2 XB Rizzuti
Golem 0.1 rev14 0.4 rev41 2001-09 C2 XB Masciulli
Halogen 2.73 2.82a 2019-12 C2 UCI Pearson
HeavyChess 0.10 beta 0.13 beta 2008-08 C2 UCI Corigliano
Hoplite 1.0 2.11 DC 2004-03 C2 XB Ekman
JaksaH 0.12 1.15 2019-11 C2 XB/UCI(XB) Jaksic
JARS 1.41 1.75a 2008-06 C2 XB Anulliero
JSBam 0.28 0.52 2005-10 C2 XB van den Bosch
Kanguruh 1.0 1.93 2008-01 C2 XB McBurney
Kenny# 0.1.1.0 0.1.1.0 JA 2013-01 C2 XB Balaji
Lodocase 220407 240208 2008-02 C2 XB Bouchet
Macromix b1.0b 2.01 2012-01 C2 UCI Pererodov
Mizar 1.0 3.0 2010-12 C2 XB Rizzuti
Morphy 3.22 - 2000-11 C2 XB Walstra
MorphyChess 1.05 TM - 2013-07 C2 XB Dominic
NewRival 1.8.12 1.8.29 2001-08 C2 XB Moreton
Noonian 2.52 3.206 2002-05 C2 XB Roberson
Pigeon 1.33 1.51 2016-10 C2 UCI Riffle
Predateur 0.11 2.2.1 2012-02 C2 UCI Marcel
Pulsar 2.01d 2009-9b 2009-09 C2 XB Adams
Purple Haze 2.0.0 2.10 JA 2012-11 C2 XB Ollivier
Ranita 2.2 2.4 2003-09 C2 XB Lallemand
RataAeroespacial version 1 0.21 2010-10 C2 XB Uranga
RDchess 2.99 3.23 2003-12 C2 XB Posch
Robin 0.91 0.983 2003-09 C2 XB Dachtera
Sayuri 2014.03.04 JV 2018.05.23 2018-05 C2 UCI Hironori
SEE 0.42 0.69 2004-03 C2 XB Lattimore
ShallowBlue 1.0.0 2.0.0 2019-01 C2 UCI Rustad-Elliott
SmallC 86 90-3 2004-07 C2 UCI Marathee
SnailChess 1.01 4.013 2002-06 C2 XB Rashjid
Storm 0.5 0.6 2000-09 C2 XB Empey
Tamerlane 0.01 0.02 2001-06 C2 XB Ripamonti
Tscp 1.2 1.81e JA 2010-09 C2 XB Kerrigan
Vicki 0.021 0.041a 2008-08 C2 XB Van Niekerk
Yoda 1.25 1.30 2008-06 C2 XB Anulliero
Ziggurat 0.13 0.22 2013-08 C2 UCI Norris
Ziggy 0.7 0.7 JA 2012-04 C2 UCI Eiriksson
Zoidberg 0.1 - 2007-12 C2 XB Diaz
Apollo# 1.1 1.21 2018-10 C2* UCI Locke
Butter 1.0 - 2018-01 C2* UCI Velagapudi
CDrill 1800 1800 b4 2017-01 C2* XB Mosca
Claudia 0.2 0.5 2016-09 C2* UCI Garro
Crabby 1.0.0 TM 2.0.0 DJ 2015-12 C2* UCI Johnson
Grizzly 0.5 2.08x 2012-04 C2* XB Lawatsch
Javalin 1.0 1.41 2014-03 C2* XB Brooks
Jester# 0.82 0.84 JA 2010-09 C2* XB Franz
Milady 1.0 3.25 2012-11 C2* XB Lejeail
Mint 1.7 2.3 2001-06 C2* XB Söderström
Tristram 3.28 3.36 1998-01 C2* XB Swafford
Vapor 0.01 rev11 0.01 rev12 2012-08 C2* UCI Leany
Winglet 0.0 0.0 JA 2013-01 C2* XB Luijten
ZZZZZZ 3.4 JA 3.51 JA 2010-02 C2* XB Wiesenekker/(Ablett)
Aldebaran 0.40 0.70 2001-06 C3 XB Scarpa
Alibaba 1.0 JA 1.40 JA 2012-11 C3 XB Breuker
ApilChess 1.01 1.05 rc1 JA 2013-09 C3 UCI Lorenz/Donninger
ArcBishop80 1.00a 1.01 2008-04 C3 XB/UCI Gemuh
AtlanChess 2.0 3.3 2005-12 C3 XB Osborne
BACE - 0.45 (0.46) 2001-06 C3 XB Bowron
Blikskottel 0.4 0.8 2009-05 C3 XB Oellermann
Cefap 0.5 0.72 2003-07 C3 XB Stjärnås
Chancellor 1.00a 1.00e 2007-11 C3 XB/UCI Gemuh
Chess-Rikus 1.2 1.466 2005-03 C3 XB Bishop
ChessV 0.94 0.95 2016-11 C3 XB Strong
Conqueror 1.1 alpha 1.2 2014-10 C3 XB/UCI Pande
Crux 0.1r 5.0m 2004-03 C3 XB Szalai
Darky# 0.5c 0.5e 2013-07 C3 XB/UCI Guerrero
Dchess 1.01 1.02 1999-08 C3 XB Wyatt
DeepTrouble 1.0 - 2000-09 C3 XB Griffiths
Eden 0.0.3 0.0.13 JA 2007-09 C3 UCI/XB Czempin
Excelsior 2.30b 3.21 2009-02 C3 XB Klonowski
Frittle 0.1 1.0 JA 2010-05 C3 XB Padhye
Gedeone - 1620 1.1b 2008-04 C3 XB Naddei
Goyaz 0.001 0.007 2008-06 C3 XB Ferreira Jr.
Hedwig 1.0 rev25 LC - 2016-07 C3 UCI Glatzmaier
HokusPokus 0.2 0.63 2004-12 C3 XB Czerminski
IQ23 0.02 0.03 2006-03 C3 UCI Müller
Jupiter 0.01 - 2006-07 C3 XB Andersen
LarsenVB 0.01 0.05.0001 2002-03 C3 XB Dormio
Marginal 0.1 - 2008-11 C3 UCI Turikov
MiniMax 1.0 TM - 2003-08 C3 XB Steinwender/Donninger/(McBurney)
Mooboo 0.01 0.2b 2003-10 C3 XB Basting
Murderhole 1.04 1.10 2004-04 C3 XB Oldre
Needle 0.5 0.5.31 2004-04 C3 XB Nummelin
Pentagon 1.0 1.2 2001-04 C3 XB Gatti
Philemon C 20040728 C JA 2008-08 C3 UCI Käser
Piranha 0.5 - 2003-04 C3 UCI Villwock
PolarEngine 1.0b 1.3 2002-12 C3 XB Malin
Pooky 1.0 2.7 2004-09 C3 XB/UCI Dahlem
Pulse 1.0.0 1.6.1 2015-07 C3 UCI Nonava
Pwned 1.0 1.3 2013-07 C3 XB/UCI Mulligan
Rainman 0.53 0.75 2003-07 C3 XB Bigert
Saruman HK - 2017-08 C3 UCI Griffin/Bolt/Griffin
SdBC 0.1.10 0.5.15.1 2013-10 C3 XB de Buhr
Simon 1.0 1.3 JA 2010-07 C3 XB Honeycutt
Simple 0.048 - 2001-09 C3 XB Coulom
Skaki 1.16 1.23 JA 2007-08 C3 XB Lazarou/Philippou
StAndersen 1.0 1.31 rev2 JA 2008-10 C3 XB Robertsson
TarraschToyEngine b0.900 b0.906 2009-09 C3 UCI Forster
Tom-Thumb snapshot 2.13 0.3 2019-11 C3 UCI Kalmijn
VanillaChess 2.6 JA 2.6g JA 2007-07 C3 XB Press
Violet (Deep) 1.1 4.0 2016-10 C3 UCI Lindgren
Zephyr 0.5 0.61 2000-06 C3 XB Schlapp
Zotron 2003 beta 4.46 2004-04 C3 XB King
Ace2 TM - 2015-07 C3* UCI Neivandt
BullitChess 1.0 TM - 2017-08 C3* UCI Halle
Casper# 20160628 - 2016-06 C3* UCI Srivastava
Cicada 0.1 - 2017-03 C3* UCI Kayali
Clownfish 0.1 0.1 2016-01 C3* XB Vallisa
Dreamer 0.10 0.30 2019-03 C3* XB van Niftrik/McAulay
EnkoChess 190817 290818 2018-08 C3* UCI Silchenko
Gladiator 0.0.1 0.0.7 2013-09 C3* XB Enríquez
Gringo 1.3.24 1.49b 2007-09 C3* XB Binder
Jchess 1.0 JA 1.0 PN 2014-06 C3* XB Michniewski
KasparovChess 1.00 r70 LC - 2017-11 C3* UCI Liu
Kitteneitor 0.18.1 0.22.1 2013-07 C3* XB Diaz
Koedem 1.0 1.1.1 2019-08 C3* UCI Kühn
MSCP 1.0b 1.6h JA 2011-07 C3* XB van Kervinck
Neurone 0.01 XXVII 2019-03 C3* XB Lissandrello
RBrChess 2.8 3.2 2012-07 C3* XB Broertjes
Revati 0.14c 0.4c 2011-02 C3* UCI Pruell
Rocinante 1.0 2.0 JA 2012-05 C3* UCI Torrecillas
SharpChess2 0.941 2.69 2012-01 C3* XB Hughes
Skiull# 0.1 0.3 2017-12 C3* UCI Soares
Spartan 1.0 TM - 2016-04 C3* UCI Daley
Supra 1.0.0 27 2019-06 C3* UCI Mourao/Soares/Correia
Trappist rev36 LC - 2018-02 C3* UCI Azri
Zochova 0.1 DC 0.1 JA 2012-12 C3* XB Buellahttps://rwbc-chess.de
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
-
Ponti
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:13 am
- Location: Curitiba - PR - BRAZIL
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
Those are exactly the questions !
Ratings of engines x ELO "human" ratings, how they correlate ?
Magnus Carlsen's ELO is =~ 2850 . Stockfish would be 3400 ? Based on what ? Would that rating be in classical ?
Nakamura's ELO is 2885 at blitz. Maybe he can't win against the best 50 engines at blitz... because engines calculate so much deeper and faster at blitz than humans can do, at blitz an engine's rating could be 300+ than its same rating at classical (obviously there are exceptions, engines that do play much better at longer time controls and not so well at blitz or even bullet ).
I don't know what was the base rating these lists used (ex CCRL) to calculate all the rest.
What was Deep Fritz's (7) rating after the match against Kramnik ? Could that be used as an initial rating to calculate all the rest ? (well, there's also the hardware difference to be considered). Is there such a list based on "human x engine" "official" games ?
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
-
Guenther
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 am
- Location: Regensburg, Germany
- Full name: Guenther Simon
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
I thought you were interested in a list with fitting opponents for you to play against?Ponti wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:07 pmThose are exactly the questions !
Ratings of engines x ELO "human" ratings, how they correlate ?
Magnus Carlsen's ELO is =~ 2850 . Stockfish would be 3400 ? Based on what ? Would that rating be in classical ?
Nakamura's ELO is 2885 at blitz. Maybe he can't win against the best 50 engines at blitz... because engines calculate so much deeper and faster at blitz than humans can do, at blitz an engine's rating could be 300+ than its same rating at classical (obviously there are exceptions, engines that do play much better at longer time controls and not so well at blitz or even bullet ).
I don't know what was the base rating these lists used (ex CCRL) to calculate all the rest.
What was Deep Fritz's (7) rating after the match against Kramnik ? Could that be used as an initial rating to calculate all the rest ? (well, there's also the hardware difference to be considered). Is there such a list based on "human x engine" "official" games ?
It seems I wasted my time to give you such a list. It is completely different at Carlsens or Nakamuras level and
also at the low end, but I am really not interested in discussing this...and there will be no general answer.
And if you wanna know how GURL2/3 or CCRL ratings are calculated just do some research.
I am a 2000 (Elo) player (2100-2200 at Lichess) and I know quite good which engines fit for me for an interesting game.
https://rwbc-chess.de
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
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Ponti
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:13 am
- Location: Curitiba - PR - BRAZIL
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
****As I wrote in my first post:****
I thought you were interested in a list with fitting opponents for you to play against?
It seems I wasted my time to give you such a list. It is completely different at Carlsens or Nakamuras level and
also at the low end, but I am really not interested in discussing this...and there will be no general answer.
And if you wanna know how GURL2/3 or CCRL ratings are calculated just do some research.
I am a 2000 (Elo) player (2100-2200 at Lichess) and I know quite good which engines fit for me for an interesting game.
Those rating lists are "engine-engine" lists and that's not a "human ELO". Stockfish 10 at full strengh playing in a human tournament with GMs only, would end #1 with an almost perfect score and an incredible rating-performance. Maybe it would be 4000 ELO (or more) in a "human" list.
>>>> Is it possible to make such an "ELO" list for engines based on engine-human games ? (I mean strong players, Fide master (FM) level, at least) <<<<
BTW, I'm glad you gave me that list of weak engines, thank you ! There are so many engines out there (and old ones) ! I'm more interested in engines that could adapt the force, as Ed 's Prodeo idea or Bob's Crafty 25.4 (or Shredder - the best one IMHO). Fritz 16 is not good, it doesn't play like Shredder ou Prodeo or Crafty. Fritz 16 just blows badly if it is winning. Minic's approach is interesting.
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
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Uri Blass
- Posts: 10309
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
- Location: Tel-Aviv Israel
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
Stockfish10 at full strenght has no way to get 4000 elo in a human list.Ponti wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:15 pm****As I wrote in my first post:****
I thought you were interested in a list with fitting opponents for you to play against?
It seems I wasted my time to give you such a list. It is completely different at Carlsens or Nakamuras level and
also at the low end, but I am really not interested in discussing this...and there will be no general answer.
And if you wanna know how GURL2/3 or CCRL ratings are calculated just do some research.
I am a 2000 (Elo) player (2100-2200 at Lichess) and I know quite good which engines fit for me for an interesting game.
Those rating lists are "engine-engine" lists and that's not a "human ELO". Stockfish 10 at full strengh playing in a human tournament with GMs only, would end #1 with an almost perfect score and an incredible rating-performance. Maybe it would be 4000 ELO (or more) in a "human" list.
>>>> Is it possible to make such an "ELO" list for engines based on engine-human games ? (I mean strong players, Fide master (FM) level, at least) <<<<
BTW, I'm glad you gave me that list of weak engines, thank you ! There are so many engines out there (and old ones) ! I'm more interested in engines that could adapt the force, as Ed 's Prodeo idea or Bob's Crafty 25.4 (or Shredder - the best one IMHO). Fritz 16 is not good, it doesn't play like Shredder ou Prodeo or Crafty. Fritz 16 just blows badly if it is winning. Minic's approach is interesting.
Even if you beat Carlsen 999.5:0.5 you do not get performance of 4000 elo.
based on the following site even if carlsen has rating of 2900 and carlsen's rating is lower he is expected to do clearly worse than it.
https://wismuth.com/elo/calculator.html ... &best_of=1
0.000059059 is the expected result of the weaker player in 1 game.
It means in 1000 games the expected result of the weaker player is
0.059059 and the weaker player may get only 1 draw in slightly less than 10000 games.
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Ponti
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:13 am
- Location: Curitiba - PR - BRAZIL
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
I agree, that's statistics, but there's not enough human-comp ***serious*** games in classical chess (I mean, not blitz or bullet games in a chess server over the Internet) to do such a list. Engines are way too strong for GMs to accept to play a serious match after Kramnik and Kasparov got defeated. Maybe such a list could be done at another level - Fide Master x engines at 2250 - 2400 level ?Uri Blass wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:31 pm
Stockfish10 at full strenght has no way to get 4000 elo in a human list.
Even if you beat Carlsen 999.5:0.5 you do not get performance of 4000 elo.
based on the following site even if carlsen has rating of 2900 and carlsen's rating is lower he is expected to do clearly worse than it.
https://wismuth.com/elo/calculator.html ... &best_of=1
0.000059059 is the expected result of the weaker player in 1 game.
It means in 1000 games the expected result of the weaker player is
0.059059 and the weaker player may get only 1 draw in slightly less than 10000 games.
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
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Ovyron
- Posts: 4556
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am
Re: Engine's "ELO" revisited
Note this isn't about statistics, but a flaw of the ELO system that breaks whenever the players have a very distant elo.
Stockfish would be able to show an ELO of 4000 in the same list where Carlsen shows 2900, but it'd need a "bridge" of players with strengths in between that show the expected performances, and not a 1100 ELO advantage when Carlsen and Stockfish play.
I wonder if someone can come up with a better system that allows the 1100 ELO advantage without needing such a bridge.
Stockfish would be able to show an ELO of 4000 in the same list where Carlsen shows 2900, but it'd need a "bridge" of players with strengths in between that show the expected performances, and not a 1100 ELO advantage when Carlsen and Stockfish play.
I wonder if someone can come up with a better system that allows the 1100 ELO advantage without needing such a bridge.