Networks for lc0

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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dkappe
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm
Full name: Dietrich Kappe

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by dkappe » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:47 am

Raphexon wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:28 am

Any estimation of Mean Girl's (32x4) 25 node ELO? 2500 Rapid ELO seems hard to believe.
Not a lot of players seem willing to engage in rated games, so that rating is based on a small sample size, Full on SF goes through it like a hot knife through butter, but humans struggle against it. I suspect that has something to do with the source material. It seems to play moves that are objectively worse, but harder for people to deal with.

duncan
Posts: 11392
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by duncan » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:27 am

Nay Lin Tun wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:56 am
Btw, a guy in lichess has played 0.35 million games. He might be the first human in history who played > 1 million record. 🤔
.35 million is not > 1 million.

Raphexon
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:00 am
Full name: Henk Drost

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by Raphexon » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:41 am

dkappe wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:47 am
Raphexon wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:28 am

Any estimation of Mean Girl's (32x4) 25 node ELO? 2500 Rapid ELO seems hard to believe.
Not a lot of players seem willing to engage in rated games, so that rating is based on a small sample size, Full on SF goes through it like a hot knife through butter, but humans struggle against it. I suspect that has something to do with the source material. It seems to play moves that are objectively worse, but harder for people to deal with.
Yea, that's what surprised me.
I played Mean Girl (32x4) vs Roce (1850 ELO on the CCRL 40/4 list) on an i5-4460.
Roce was 50-80 ELO stronger on 10+0.1s increments.
Leela 60-90 ELO stronger on 20+0.2s increments.

And even those 0.1s increments were a lot more than 25 nodes.
So either even very weak a/b engines can crush humans these days or Mean Girl has a very anti-human style.

dkappe
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm
Full name: Dietrich Kappe

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by dkappe » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:02 pm

Raphexon wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:41 am
So either even very weak a/b engines can crush humans these days or Mean Girl has a very anti-human style.
I’d say it has a very human style, which is “anti-human,” as opposed to “inhuman.” I’ve gotten feedback from several players that they find playing against it makes them stronger. That’s very different from my experiences with ab engines, which develop bad anti-engine habits in my play.

DustyMonkey
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by DustyMonkey » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:46 pm

Nay Lin Tun wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:56 am
e.g, You want to learn NN this is a cat, you need to show a million pictures of cats.
and also millions of pictures of not-cats

todd
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 pm

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by todd » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:31 am

To the best of my knowledge, the player who has played the most internet chess games under a single account is "A6648" on ICC, who has been playing under that name since 1996. As of right now, he has played 671,135 rated games on this account.

The previously mentioned "german11" on lichess is playing at a faster pace, though.

https://app.chessclub.com/Profile/A6648/RatingStats

EroSennin
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Networks for lc0

Post by EroSennin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:30 am

dkappe wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:02 pm
Raphexon wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:41 am
So either even very weak a/b engines can crush humans these days or Mean Girl has a very anti-human style.
I’d say it has a very human style, which is “anti-human,” as opposed to “inhuman.” I’ve gotten feedback from several players that they find playing against it makes them stronger. That’s very different from my experiences with ab engines, which develop bad anti-engine habits in my play.
Well mean girl can beat stockfish7 (it’s not stockfish version 7) on lichess. That’s higher than IM at blitz and rapid time control.

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