Page 18 of 27
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:35 pm
by chrisw
Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:25 pm
chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:21 pm
Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:28 am
chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am
Ovyron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:18 am
chrisw wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:53 pmI don’t understand the question
I asked if I can copyright the picture or not. That you don't know would show how you wouldn't know if Fat Fritz's weights could be copyrighted either.
The phrase “picture I made” does not contain sufficient information to be able to answer. And all I could have done was report known legal factors, but you could look those up yourself. Anyway, as it turns out, you weren’t interested in knowing about your picture, it was instead a cipher for trying to get a personal opinion, but I don’t have a personal opinion on its legal status, the status either is or isn’t, independent of anything I might think. Hope that’s enough for you now.
A cipher? Whatever do you mean?
Surely you have come across the expression “a cipher for”? Rather than me long windedly explain it to you, you could endeavour to work it out from context.
Curious reply from the guy who can't figure out the context for quotes on his text.
Well, that escalated fast. Bye.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:01 am
by Ovyron
chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 amThe phrase “picture I made” does not contain sufficient information to be able to answer.
Well, the picture was produced in a way fully mechanical, by Neural Networks, where no human creativity was involved (the only human factor of the picture was getting lots of garbage pictures and "curating" this one.)
The whole point of the exercise is that you can't tell the difference between this picture, and say, one that I imagined and spent time designing to look like what I imagined, full of human creativity and engagement, which could clearly be copyrighted.
This shows that you can't take a look at Fat Fritz's weights and figure the way in which they were constructed, claim they didn't have human creativity involved, and say that they're a bunch of numbers that can be freely distributed over the internet for free.
Piracy breaks down if it depends on trusting the author about the way they made their work, so it can't depend on how a work was produced (because, you just can't know.)
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:56 am
by chrisw
Ovyron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:01 am
chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 amThe phrase “picture I made” does not contain sufficient information to be able to answer.
Well, the picture was produced in a way fully mechanical, by Neural Networks, where no human creativity was involved (the only human factor of the picture was getting lots of garbage pictures and "curating" this one.)
The whole point of the exercise is that you can't tell the difference between this picture, and say, one that I imagined and spent time designing to look like what I imagined, full of human creativity and engagement, which could clearly be copyrighted.
This shows that you can't take a look at Fat Fritz's weights and figure the way in which they were constructed, claim they didn't have human creativity involved, and say that they're a bunch of numbers that can be freely distributed over the internet for free.
Piracy breaks down if it depends on trusting the author about the way they made their work, so it can't depend on how a work was produced (because, you just can't know.)
What you describe is an inversion if the problem, and therefore not the problem.
Copyright on a mechanically created set of weights would need to be actually asserted by registering the copyright at the appropriate legal office. They’re different to a book, which defaults to copyright author. Mechanical selection defaults to not copyrightable. It’s not therefore “our” problem. Weights would need to have attached a notice giving registration point and reference number. Then human can consult and make a decision about status.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:28 pm
by Paloma
Why do we keep talking about copyright here?
Over 17 pages
That is the problem of Chessbase alone!
We buy FatFritz and everything else is not our problem.
It's that simple.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:50 pm
by mclane
I don’t buy fritz. The software is not what I understand under a useful chess gui.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:44 pm
by shrapnel
Paloma wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:28 pm
Why do we keep talking about copyright here?
Over 17 pages
That is the problem of Chessbase alone!
We buy FatFritz and everything else is not our problem.
It's that simple.
Fully agree. Private Enterprise should be rewarded, not criticized.
If someone wants to make some money out of computer chess, what's the harm ?
I'm sure even if some ideas were some borrowed from lc0, the Fat Fritz Authors put in a lot of effort and time of their own.
No harm if they want to get paid for it.
In any case, they are not forcing anyone to buy their Products.
The people over at lczero.org are just doing it as a Hobby and for love of the Game of Chess, which is fine, but I'm sure they have other sources of Income in the Real World.
Sometimes, Money is a good Motivator, and if the Result is better Chess Engines, then Computer Chess gains as a whole.
So, live and let live !
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:11 pm
by Eduard
mclane wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:50 pm
I don’t buy fritz. The software is not what I understand under a useful chess gui.
I really like the Fritz GUI. It's fun to play and work with it.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:19 pm
by Nordlandia
Let's Check database has now support for 7-piece syzygy support. It list won endgames (from white perspective) as "1" and win for black as "-1"
Nalimov is still there if 6 pieces remain on the board.
Yeah i'm going to buy Fritz 17.
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:54 pm
by George Tsavdaris
Nordlandia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:19 pm
Let's Check database has now support for 7-piece syzygy support. It list won endgames (from white perspective) as "1" and win for black as "-1"
Nalimov is still there if 6 pieces remain on the board.
Yeah i'm going to buy Fritz 17.
Is there a download (for full DVD, databases, opening books, engines of course, etc) option available from Chessbase or only DVD one?
I can't wait so long
Re: Fritz 17
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:33 pm
by Stonker
Everything available as download. Have you been to their online shop and looked?
Just choose 'Download' instead of 'Post'.