ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
User avatar
Rebel
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Rebel » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Everybody is unique, except me.

smatovic
Posts: 905
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Full name: Srdja Matovic
Contact:

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by smatovic » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.

Obviously you try to rehabilitate Vas resp. try to indict other chess
programmers of what Vas has done.

So you are in the role of the accuser, but who is the jury? Do you try to
mobilize a mob or do you wish to establish a trial. In the latter case you
should consider a real legal proceeding...I am not into all this, but there are
for sure channels to the ICGA for this purpose.

--
Srdja

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Ovyron » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:12 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm
Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.
General subforum's description: Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Until they change the description it's clear the EO subforum has outlived its usefulness and now it's an obstacle to "discussion relating to chess playing software and machines", as people aren't going to monitor EO just to see what happens with Rebel's thread.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

smatovic
Posts: 905
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Full name: Srdja Matovic
Contact:

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by smatovic » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:31 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:12 pm
smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm
Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.
General subforum's description: Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Until they change the description it's clear the EO subforum has outlived its usefulness and now it's an obstacle to "discussion relating to chess playing software and machines", as people aren't going to monitor EO just to see what happens with Rebel's thread.
Simply create a poll on this topic, then you will see how people think about EO.

We have no trials in this forum for plagiarism, and by simply accusing someone of plagiarism
the reputation can already be damaged, so imo this stuff belongs to the EO.

--
Srdja

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Ovyron » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:41 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:31 pm
Simply create a poll on this topic, then you will see how people think about EO.
I don't believe in anonymous cowards that vote on polls without stating why they think the way they do on a post, or that report posts to be moved to EO without showing their faces. They have already won the battle by convincing Sam Hull that the current state of censorship is fine (nobody interested about engine origins can find this info on Google), and with at least 2 moderators on their side all this is moot.

Hopefully things will change after the next election, but we need to be open about everything (who wants what and why), anonymous polls have gotten us to where we are, and if someone isn't willing to post their thoughts in a post they don't deserve to be listened to. They're afraid of "retaliation" as if words on a post could hurt them.

Last time this was brought up I openly voted for closing EO and moving all the threads to this section, and I was the only voter.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

chrisw
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by chrisw » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:45 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm
Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.

Obviously you try to rehabilitate Vas resp. try to indict other chess
programmers of what Vas has done.
Your comment “what Vas has done” indicates an acceptance it was ok to have dragged him as a witch into the town square and burnt him at the stake.

In the alternative he was no witch, he was just another programmer who was good at chess engines doing what chess programmers do, which is use ideas, most of which are already in existence.
In the alternative, we are not witch hunters, we come from another level that says what happened in 2011 or whenever was not okay, the sorcery of which Vas was accused is more general, look, here is what we found.
What happened was not okay. We do not want to allow the contradiction to remain.

So you are in the role of the accuser, but who is the jury? Do you try to
mobilize a mob or do you wish to establish a trial. In the latter case you
should consider a real legal proceeding...I am not into all this, but there are
for sure channels to the ICGA for this purpose.

--
Srdja

smatovic
Posts: 905
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Full name: Srdja Matovic
Contact:

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by smatovic » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:07 pm

chrisw wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:45 pm
smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm
Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.

Obviously you try to rehabilitate Vas resp. try to indict other chess
programmers of what Vas has done.
Your comment “what Vas has done” indicates an acceptance it was ok to have dragged him as a witch into the town square and burnt him at the stake.
No, it doesn't.
chrisw wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:45 pm
In the alternative he was no witch, he was just another programmer who was good at chess engines doing what chess programmers do, which is use ideas, most of which are already in existence.
Ok, that's your pov.
chrisw wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:45 pm
In the alternative, we are not witch hunters, we come from another level that says what happened in 2011 or whenever was not okay, the sorcery of which Vas was accused is more general, look, here is what we found.
What happened was not okay. We do not want to allow the contradiction to remain.
Ok, you made your and Eds intention clear. Fine.

But I wish to point out that here on CCC you won't find a fair trial.
Here you can only rehabilitate Vas by 'another witch hunt'.
The fair and more effective way for rehabilitation would be to address this with
the ICGA, cos the ICGA was the institution that sentenced Vas.

--
Srdja

User avatar
Rebel
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Rebel » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:26 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:04 pm
Rebel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:03 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72066

I think this post belongs in the main forum, certainly the ICGA part.
Hmm, imo this belongs to the EO subforum.
And there it is posted, expecting if people have something to say, put it there.

Regarding my comment on the ICGA 2011 vs 2019 it should be known to everyone.

Hypocrisy needs to be addressed.
Everybody is unique, except me.

User avatar
hgm
Posts: 23714
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:06 am
Location: Amsterdam
Full name: H G Muller
Contact:

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by hgm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:53 pm

As ar as I understood the postings in this forum section cannot be found by Google either. But perhaps Sam can inform us about that.

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Ovyron » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:22 pm

hgm wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:53 pm
As ar as I understood the postings in this forum section cannot be found by Google either. But perhaps Sam can inform us about that.
We don't need Sam to confirm or deny anything, if you search for "Similarity Report - d=1 move chooser rarity" (with quotes) on Google, Talkchess is the only result, because that thread wasn't censored.

If you search for "Similarity Report match.epd" you get nothing, because this is information that has been decided to be hidden from the public.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

Post Reply