TalkChess.com

MikeB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:50 pm Just FYI, I have confirm with people that are usually in the know , that they believe a 64 Core Threadripper will be announced on October 7, 2019. Apparently , the 7th is big deal with these new chips for obvious reasons.

I hope you're right but the 3950x was supposed to come out on the 7th of September and it didn't

I can't wait for the 64 core one. I hope one will be able to get 256 or 512GB of RAM with it as well (it was a major limitation of the previous one that you could only get 128GB of RAM with it).

MikeB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:24 pm Will probably wait until the 3950x comes out to compare total price of build and performance. Prices shown are from parts picker:

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CPU:
AMD Threadripper 2990WX 3 GHz 32-Core Processor				 $1693.22	

CPU Cooler:		
Cooler Master Wraith Ripper 76.4 CFM CPU Cooler				  $134.99	

Motherboard:		
Gigabyte X399 AORUS PRO ATX TR4 Motherboard				  $279.99

Memory:	
G.Skill Trident Z Neo 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory 		  $374.99

Storage:		
Intel 660p Series 2.048 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive		  $184.99

Video Card:		
Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC 3X Video Card		  $499.99

Case:	
Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case					  $139.99

Power Supply:		
Antec 850 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	  $130.90

Wired Network Adapter:		
Intel E1G42ETBLK PCIe x4 1000 Mbit/s Network Adapter			  $48.00	

Wireless Network Adapter:		
Gigabyte GC-WB867D-I PCIe x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter		  $34.88

Fan Controller		
Thermaltake Commander FT Fan Controller			  		  $39.99

								Total:	$3562.02	

If you want to go with the 2nd gen 2990wx. There is some issues with this cpu. In many cases the 2950x will outperform the 2990wx. If you just want a awesome chess machine. The 2990wx will work fine.

Do not air cool the 2990wx or any Threadripper. Use the liqtech TR4 II 500 Watt AIO. Threadrippers performance is linked to how well you can cool the CPU.

And I would go with the Asus mother board. You will have better support. As you will be able to pop in the new 3rd gen Threadrippers when you want to upgrade the CPU.

I looked at using the Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case. Very clunky case design and just fair cooling. The best case for Threadripper for cooling is the Lian Li 011 dynamic. In my opinion the best case ever designed. And you will love how easy it is to build your system using the 011 dynamic.

You don't need a platinum power supply. With your build you would be better served in the long run using a 1000 watt power supply. Like a RM 1000x or a EVGA 1000 watt. This will give you more OC headroom.

And the Corsair commander pro is a better fan controller option for keeping the system cooler.

With Threadripper the main goal for best performance is being able to control the heat the system will generate.

Do not make the same mistake as other have here building their TR system. It is all about controlling the HEAT. And if you do this right you will not be posting here asking why your system is not performing like mine.

If you take my advice and use the 011 dynamic case. Buy 6 120mm fans corsair, and 1 360 TR4 II AIO. And a Corsair commander pro to control your fans. And you will have a trouble free system.

It sounds like a lot of fun. What are you going to do with it? With an Alpha Beta engine there are questions about its ability to use 32 cores. Do NNs use 32 cores? What about getting a 16 core using Hyper threading and save some money.

I'm focused on OC i9 cooling issues. What open or closed loop system are you using?

Leo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:48 pm It sounds like a lot of fun. What are you going to do with it? With an Alpha Beta engine there are questions about its ability to use 32 cores. Do NNs use 32 cores? What about getting a 16 core using Hyper threading and save some money.

Good point - I also use the cores for single thread testing purposes - so Ideally getting 64 cores will add to my 12 cores currently use for 72 in total. Will be able to crank thru 5x more of testing in the same amount of time. But Agree - above 32 threads it's not an huge Elo gain to go to 64 threads.

Leo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:48 pm It sounds like a lot of fun. What are you going to do with it? With an Alpha Beta engine there are questions about its ability to use 32 cores. Do NNs use 32 cores? What about getting a 16 core using Hyper threading and save some money.

Threadrippers come with 64x PCIe lanes, so you can run 4x GPUs on them (usually 8x lanes per GPU when its this dense. Typically 16x per GPU when you only have 1x GPU). Then you spend the rest of your PCIe lanes on NVMe SSDs (4x lanes per SSD), so that your tablebase searching can be better.

Of course, 4x 2070 Tis will be quite expensive, and also suck down a LOT of power. Leela Zero doesn't scale too well to multiple GPUs IIRC, but you can run an engine-per-card (4x Leela Zeros for the 4x 2070 Tis)... maybe for opening book generation or something like that.

Also, Leela Zero cannot use Tablebases. But you got around 64-threads for standard chess engines to run in parallel to the 4x LeelaZero instances.

Your typical CPU, like an i9-9900k or Ryzen 9 3950x, only has 24x PCIe lanes or so, so maybe 2x GPUs at the most. A typical desktop CPU is probably the best for running single-instances of chess engines. Where Threadripper would shine is when you want to run 2x, or 4x, or 16x the engines in parallel.

dragontamer5788 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:25 pm

Leo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:48 pm It sounds like a lot of fun. What are you going to do with it? With an Alpha Beta engine there are questions about its ability to use 32 cores. Do NNs use 32 cores? What about getting a 16 core using Hyper threading and save some money.

Threadrippers come with 64x PCIe lanes, so you can run 4x GPUs on them (usually 8x lanes per GPU when its this dense. Typically 16x per GPU when you only have 1x GPU). Then you spend the rest of your PCIe lanes on NVMe SSDs (4x lanes per SSD), so that your tablebase searching can be better.

Of course, 4x 2070 Tis will be quite expensive, and also suck down a LOT of power. Leela Zero doesn't scale too well to multiple GPUs IIRC, but you can run an engine-per-card (4x Leela Zeros for the 4x 2070 Tis)... maybe for opening book generation or something like that.

Also, Leela Zero cannot use Tablebases. But you got around 64-threads for standard chess engines to run in parallel to the 4x LeelaZero instances.

Your typical CPU, like an i9-9900k or Ryzen 9 3950x, only has 24x PCIe lanes or so, so maybe 2x GPUs at the most. A typical desktop CPU is probably the best for running single-instances of chess engines. Where Threadripper would shine is when you want to run 2x, or 4x, or 16x the engines in parallel.

Lc0 uses tablebases just fine.

mwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:46 am Lc0 uses tablebases just fine.

Interesting. How does the neural net factor into the tablebase? Or is it only the (relatively slow) MCTS portion that uses tablebases?

LC0 only searches in the ~100,000 nodes/second speed. So they won't be probing the endgame table as much as other engines (which are in the 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 nodes/second speed). I haven't run tests, but I'd assume that "fast and light" AB-engines with millions of nps are better than "slow and heavy" MCTS engines at tablebase probing.

dragontamer5788 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:34 am

mwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:46 am Lc0 uses tablebases just fine.

Interesting. How does the neural net factor into the tablebase? Or is it only the (relatively slow) MCTS portion that uses tablebases?

LC0 only searches in the ~100,000 nodes/second speed. So they won't be probing the endgame table as much as other engines (which are in the 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 nodes/second speed). I haven't run tests, but I'd assume that "fast and light" AB-engines with millions of nps are better than "slow and heavy" MCTS engines at tablebase probing.

True, Tablebase probes is based on search speed. But you said "Leela Zero cannot use Tablebases." I do agree Stockfish probes the table bases much faster. And having Tablebase on a very fast mvme ssd is a huge asset for Stockfish. As there is no slowdown even on a 16 core Threadripper. And has saved many loses when playing Lc0.