Computer Chess and Capitalism

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Rebel
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by Rebel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:27 pm

hgm wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:32 pm
Then you are wrong on all counts. The thread was not about ChessMaster, but was asking for WinBoard engines. Anyone not suggesting a WinBoard engine was already off-topic. This was a clear example of thread hijacking, to which other people took offense. Thread hijacking is an undesired behavior on any forum. Decent people would apologize for it to the O.P., if they did it unintentionally. Only a anarchistic trouble-maker would attack the moderator for cleaning up his mess.

If you don't like the result, don't do it again. It is as simple as that.
Hear, hear, one decent moderator.
Everybody is unique, except me.

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hgm
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by hgm » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:42 pm

If you cannot stomach the facts of life, go elsewhere!

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Rebel
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by Rebel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:50 pm

The question was more, who moderates a moderator that makes himself a subject to moderation.
Everybody is unique, except me.

Dann Corbit
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:41 pm

Intoleration is a state that no tolerant man would tolerate.
And to understand recursion, we must first understand recursion.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Dann Corbit
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:43 pm

I should also add that I had posts deleted by other moderators when I was a moderator.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

supersharp77
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by supersharp77 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:41 am

chrisw wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:35 pm
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
jewelmind wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:23 am
I still find Chessmaster the most beautiful interface, easier on the eye and less cluttered than anything released since. So I want to keep using it, and I want to watch matches between good engines on it.

I've successfully imported Greko into Chessmaster 10, and the games are great, as Greko is around the same strength. Greko can even use Chessmaster opening books, which is fantastic.

For variety, I would like to import some more Winboard engines into Chessmaster at least as strong as Chessmaster 10 (or 11 - just bought it), but Greko is the only available one I could find. Everything seems to be UCI now. I find the instructions out there on how to import UCI engines into Chessmaster completely bamboozling! An example is this page:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/genera ... ci-engines

I can't use advice like this as I'm not a programmer. I don't know what a binary is, or an ini file, or how to edit it or with what etc. I'm completely lost with this. I looked at the Polyglot download page and it may as well have been written in ancient Sumerian.

So I think it's best if I just hunt for Winboard engines that can be easily imported into Chessmaster, like Greko. What's good and available and where is it? I've seen someone state that earlier versions of Crafty and Fruit were Winboard - is that true? If so, where are they?!

Note: Please don't post links to old general info like the Wikipedia list of Winboard engines - most of the links are dead now and most of the engines are weak. I need specific links to where I can get good Winboard engines now, as strong or stronger than Greko.
I completely agree. Chessmaster ALWAYS had a stunningly beautiful interface, and I'd be using it now (Polyglot nonsense, I finally figured out), but one cannot include external engines in engine tournaments...that was a deal-breaker for me.

About Winboard Engines:

Thinker (versions 5.1c, 5.1e, 5.4d, 5.3b,5.2c are good place to start)

Frenzee 3.5.19

Dimitri (not so strong, but lots of fun)

ZChess 2.0
Oh, crap, Brendon! Chessmaster was a criminal class venture capitalist program, moving through a stream of bankrupting companies burning their way through outrageous sums of investor cash, advertising, branding with massive budgets and effectively extracting huge amounts of consumer funds which might otherwise have found their way into actual chess programming pockets, rather than making some crooked venture capitalists (who really couldn’t care less what they were selling) rich and ripping off others. The guy on the cover was an old homeless guy they found on the street, like the woman on the cover of Mavis Beacon teaches typing, same marketing guy’s idea, was called in from somewhere, and couldn’t type. This whole thing was marketing over content and they moved from any one engine programmer to another at will, for no apparent good reason. Painful just how many people were taken in by it. Cripes, even Chessbase, great satan in many peoples books, at least are/were a company that actually concentrated on and took an interest in the content of what they are/were selling. Chessmaster?! Pass the sick bag.
The Original Premise Still Remains....Is His Post Really The TRUTH....Or NOT? A very important issue has been raised by the poster...ChessMaster..Worlds Greatest and Most Successful Chess Program... Or Corrupt Corporate Scheme? 8-)

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hgm
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by hgm » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:10 am

Rebel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:50 pm
The question was more, who moderates a moderator that makes himself a subject to moderation.
As Dann pointed out, there is more than one moderator.

You don't have to beat around the bush: just openly state that you think thread hijacking and publicly quarreling with the moderator in violation of the charter is perfectly normal behavior, and that it is indecent to criticize it. Then people know where you stand.

chrisw
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by chrisw » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:07 am

hgm wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:10 am
Rebel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:50 pm
The question was more, who moderates a moderator that makes himself a subject to moderation.
As Dann pointed out, there is more than one moderator.

You don't have to beat around the bush: just openly state that you think thread hijacking
That's a subjective viewpoint. Exaggerated wildly. And very likely based on both personal animosity and post-facto self justification.
Whatever, it's not worth to argue with you over it.

and publicly quarreling with the moderator in violation of the charter
I politely asked, prefacing my ask with the word 'kindly' and end the request with the word 'thanks', that you altered the appearance of the thread such that it did not misattribute my name to the thread title, which I didn't write, but says I did.

It was a fairly trivial and entirely reasonable request which could have been fairly trivially dealt with the moderator tools. End of. I made zero personal comment about you, nor criticism, it was just a straight factual, formally toned, request to correct a misattribution.

Your response was an immediate sarcastic, personal attack comment coupled with a refusal.

"hijacking" ... "wildly off-topic" ..... "a moderator is something else than your private secretary" .... "your behavior"

is perfectly normal behavior, and that it is indecent to criticize it. Then people know where you stand.
Then you escalate later to:
"Decent people would apologize" .... "anarchistic trouble-maker would attack the moderator for cleaning up his mess"


The person out of control here is you, Mr Muller.

This page is supposed to be for general computer chess (including criticism of Chessmaster brand btw), not for a Moderator to carry out his personal grudges on a member with rude and intemperate language.

I repeat that my original reasoned, polite request simply to correct the original misattribution. Could have been trivially dealt with there and then. All that followed is bad behaviour, and personal abuse, initiated by you, and performed by you.

Again, don't bother to reply.

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hgm
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by hgm » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:47 pm

chrisw wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:07 am
That's a subjective viewpoint. Exaggerated wildly. And very likely based on both personal animosity and post-facto self justification.
Whatever, it's not worth to argue with you over it.
Yet you just did. :lol:

pilgrimdan
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Re: Computer Chess and Capitalism

Post by pilgrimdan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:56 pm

hgm wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:47 pm
chrisw wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:07 am
That's a subjective viewpoint. Exaggerated wildly. And very likely based on both personal animosity and post-facto self justification.
Whatever, it's not worth to argue with you over it.
Yet you just did. :lol:
the same kind of thoughts expressed concerning Chessmaster … can also be made about Pete Rose … as far as I know he still holds records in MLB … but because he (allegedly) betted on baseball games … even his own team … that tarnished his baseball career … should that keep him out of the baseball hall of fame? … some say yes … some say no …

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