Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

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zullil
Posts: 5562
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Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:14 pm

zullil wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:04 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:09 am

This is with ABROK Haswell compile of Aug-21 with an empty TT. Total time is 6.68 seconds.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Puzzling. I just downloaded the linux-modern binary from abrok. That's what I can test on the machine I'm currently at.

Default settings, so 1 thread, 16 MB hash, no endgame tables:

info depth 42 seldepth 68 multipv 1 score cp -38 nodes 331760937 nps 2231660 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 148661 pv e6d5 b8c8 d5a8 c7c4 e5g7 b5b4 a8d5 c4c5 d5f3 c8c7 g7h6 b4b3 h6g7 c5c2 f3e4 c2d2 g6f5 c7b6 g7c3 d2d8 f5e5 b6c5 e5f4 d8d6 f4e5 d6d1 e5f4 c5c4 c3e5 c4b4 f4e3 b4a3 e5d4 d1e1 e3f4 b3b2 e4g6 e1e6 g6d3 a3b3 d4a7 b3c3 d3b1 e6a6

and still searching ...

Puzzling...
Depth 60 and more than an hour, and still searching ...

info depth 60 seldepth 157 multipv 1 score cp -14 nodes 10108812660 nps 2410732 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4193253 pv e6d5 b8c8 d5a8 c7c4 e5g7 h6h5 g6h5 b5b4 a8f3 c8c7 h5g5 c7b6 g5f5 c4c7 g7f6 c7d7 f5e6 d7d2 f6g5 d2h2 e6d5 b4b3 g5f6 b6a6 f6d4 a6b5 d4a7 b3b2 f3e4 h2h5 d5d4 b5b4 e4c2 h5h4 d4d3 h4h3 d3d4 h3c3 c2f5 c3c7 a7b8 c7d7 d4e3 d7d5 f5e4 d5b5 b8g3 b4b3 g3d6 b5g5 e3f4 g5h5 d6e5 h5h4 f4f5 h4e4 e5b2 e4e2 b2e5 e2e3 e5d4 e3e1 d4e5 b3c2 f5f4 c2c1

zullil
Posts: 5562
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:37 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:09 am

Hmmm...

Code: Select all


43 [M5]  1.Bd7 b4 2.Kf7 b3 3.Ke8 b2 4.Kd8 b1=Q 5.Bxc7#  (6.68)
This is with ABROK Haswell compile of Aug-21 with an empty TT. Total time is 6.68 seconds.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Well, with default settings the linux-modern binary from abrok seems just as clueless as any other Stockfish binary:

info depth 65 seldepth 163 multipv 1 score cp -13 nodes 37344672013 nps 2432399 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 15353017 pv e6d5 b8c8 d5a8 c7c4 e5g7 c8c7 g7h6 c7b6 a8d5 c4c3 d5b7 b5b4 g6f5 b4b3 h6g7 c3c2 g7d4 b6b5 b7e4 c2d2 d4a7 d2d7 a7e3 b5a6 f5e6 d7d1 e6f5 a6b5 f5g4 b5b4 g4f3 d1d8 e3c1 b4c3 c1g5 d8d6 e4f5 c3c4 f5h7 b3b2 f3e2 d6a6 h7d3 c4d5 g5e3 a6a1 e2f3 a1f1 e3f2 b2b1r d3b1 f1b1 f3f4 b1b8 f4e3 b8e8 e3f4 e8e6 f4f5 e6e5 f5f6 e5h5 f2e1 h5h3 f6g5 h3f3 e1h4 f3e3 g5f5 e3b3 f5f6 b3d3 h4g5 d3h3 f6e7 d5e5 g5f6 e5f5 f6b2 h3b3 b2c1 b3b1 c1d2 b1f1 d2c3 f1f2 c3d4 f2a2 e7d6 a2d2 d6d5 d2d4 d5d4 f5g5

Since your search found mate-in-5 at depth 43, I'm assuming that you used endgame tables, multiple search threads, and perhaps you also had some good SMP luck. Since your search took less than 7 seconds, I'm assuming that you are using a very fast (overclocked?) processor. :wink: If I'm wrong about this, then something very interesting has occurred.

Zenmastur
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:36 am

zullil wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:37 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:09 am

Hmmm...

Code: Select all


43 [M5]  1.Bd7 b4 2.Kf7 b3 3.Ke8 b2 4.Kd8 b1=Q 5.Bxc7#  (6.68)
This is with ABROK Haswell compile of Aug-21 with an empty TT. Total time is 6.68 seconds.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Well, with default settings the linux-modern binary from abrok seems just as clueless as any other Stockfish binary:

info depth 65 seldepth 163 multipv 1 score cp -13 nodes 37344672013 nps 2432399 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 15353017 pv e6d5 b8c8 d5a8 c7c4 e5g7 c8c7 g7h6 c7b6 a8d5 c4c3 d5b7 b5b4 g6f5 b4b3 h6g7 c3c2 g7d4 b6b5 b7e4 c2d2 d4a7 d2d7 a7e3 b5a6 f5e6 d7d1 e6f5 a6b5 f5g4 b5b4 g4f3 d1d8 e3c1 b4c3 c1g5 d8d6 e4f5 c3c4 f5h7 b3b2 f3e2 d6a6 h7d3 c4d5 g5e3 a6a1 e2f3 a1f1 e3f2 b2b1r d3b1 f1b1 f3f4 b1b8 f4e3 b8e8 e3f4 e8e6 f4f5 e6e5 f5f6 e5h5 f2e1 h5h3 f6g5 h3f3 e1h4 f3e3 g5f5 e3b3 f5f6 b3d3 h4g5 d3h3 f6e7 d5e5 g5f6 e5f5 f6b2 h3b3 b2c1 b3b1 c1d2 b1f1 d2c3 f1f2 c3d4 f2a2 e7d6 a2d2 d6d5 d2d4 d5d4 f5g5

Since your search found mate-in-5 at depth 43, I'm assuming that you used endgame tables, multiple search threads, and perhaps you also had some good SMP luck. Since your search took less than 7 seconds, I'm assuming that you are using a very fast (overclocked?) processor. :wink: If I'm wrong about this, then something very interesting has occurred.
Your right about all except it being SMP luck. I tried it several times with the same basic results. I guess I should have read the entire thread before I posted. I didn't I just skimmed a few of the posts and then tested the position a few time and then posted the results. I didn't catch the single thread part of the lack of EGTBs.

I suppose I could run it again, but my machine is busy. Maybe later today.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

zullil
Posts: 5562
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:10 am

Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:36 am

Your right about all except it being SMP luck. I tried it several times with the same basic results. I guess I should have read the entire thread before I posted. I didn't I just skimmed a few of the posts and then tested the position a few time and then posted the results. I didn't catch the single thread part of the lack of EGTBs.

I suppose I could run it again, but my machine is busy. Maybe later today.

Regards,

Zenmastur
To test if I might have been especially unlucky, I just did five searches using multiple threads and 6-man Syzygy tables. Never got mate-in-5 at a depth below 55. So perhaps your 43 was an outlier, not that it matters much either way.

But the point is---don't try to find this mate-in-5 using default settings. It will take a long, long time.

zullil
Posts: 5562
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:07 pm

zullil wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:10 am

But the point is---don't try to find this mate-in-5 using default settings. It will take a long, long time.
Like 81 billion nodes :roll:

info depth 71 seldepth 149 multipv 1 score mate 5 nodes 81339463910 nps 2475931 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 32852068 pv e6d7 b5b4 g6f7 b4b3 f7e8 b3b2 e8d8 b2b1q e5c7

This was yesterday's SF-dev.

EroSennin
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by EroSennin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm

zullil wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:26 pm
There are many draws in computer chess because chess is a theoretical draw and engines, unlike humans, make very few horrific errors. Humans suck at chess. We've sucked at it long enough that the chess literature is full of "brilliant" wins (i.e., horrific blunder-filled losses).

If chess engines had been invented in time, humans might have realized how much they sucked at chess and stopped playing altogether. :twisted:
When you see someone more successful than you, do you immediately think about killing yourself? I recommend visiting a doctor.

Zenmastur
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:30 pm

zullil wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:07 pm
zullil wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:10 am

But the point is---don't try to find this mate-in-5 using default settings. It will take a long, long time.
Like 81 billion nodes :roll:

info depth 71 seldepth 149 multipv 1 score mate 5 nodes 81339463910 nps 2475931 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 32852068 pv e6d7 b5b4 g6f7 b4b3 f7e8 b3b2 e8d8 b2b1q e5c7

This was yesterday's SF-dev.
Single thread no TB's seems like you are right, but as soon as I add multi-pV=2 while it's searching it finds it in less than 10 msecs.

I think someone should play with internal settings of SF to see whats up with this very odd behavior. I've notices Multi-PV fixes a lot of things almost as soon as it's tried. Maybe this should be done internally at the beginning of every search.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

zullil
Posts: 5562
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:33 pm

EroSennin wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:26 pm
There are many draws in computer chess because chess is a theoretical draw and engines, unlike humans, make very few horrific errors. Humans suck at chess. We've sucked at it long enough that the chess literature is full of "brilliant" wins (i.e., horrific blunder-filled losses).

If chess engines had been invented in time, humans might have realized how much they sucked at chess and stopped playing altogether. :twisted:
When you see someone more successful than you, do you immediately think about killing yourself? I recommend visiting a doctor.
No, and I enjoy playing chess. I just know that humans suck at it. :wink:

EroSennin
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by EroSennin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:01 pm

zullil wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:33 pm
EroSennin wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:26 pm
There are many draws in computer chess because chess is a theoretical draw and engines, unlike humans, make very few horrific errors. Humans suck at chess. We've sucked at it long enough that the chess literature is full of "brilliant" wins (i.e., horrific blunder-filled losses).

If chess engines had been invented in time, humans might have realized how much they sucked at chess and stopped playing altogether. :twisted:
When you see someone more successful than you, do you immediately think about killing yourself? I recommend visiting a doctor.
No, and I enjoy playing chess. I just know that humans suck at it. :wink:
Why haven't you stopped playing then?

zullil
Posts: 5562
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Where did all these 3400 engines come from?

Post by zullil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:11 pm

EroSennin wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:01 pm
zullil wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:33 pm
EroSennin wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:26 pm
There are many draws in computer chess because chess is a theoretical draw and engines, unlike humans, make very few horrific errors. Humans suck at chess. We've sucked at it long enough that the chess literature is full of "brilliant" wins (i.e., horrific blunder-filled losses).

If chess engines had been invented in time, humans might have realized how much they sucked at chess and stopped playing altogether. :twisted:
When you see someone more successful than you, do you immediately think about killing yourself? I recommend visiting a doctor.
No, and I enjoy playing chess. I just know that humans suck at it. :wink:
Why haven't you stopped playing then?
Clearly you've taken my statement much more seriously than I intended. I included the little :twisted: to signal that the statement should be considered (an attempt at) humor.

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