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'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:05 pm
by supersharp77
https://en.chessbase.com/post/fat-fritz ... th-is-that

New Fat Fritz-Available On The Chessbase Cloud for Testing... :) :wink:

"Fat Fritz – What on Earth is that?
by Albert Silver
8/13/2019 – It's a semi-secret development, an AlphaZero clone, engineered over the past nine months for ChessBase. Fat Fritz was tested by some of the best players in the world, who expressed unmitigated delight over the ideas and improvements it came up with. Now the program is publicly available on the ChessBase Engine Cloud. And it is running on awesome hardware. ALBERT SILVER explains."
Genesis
You probably know AlphaZero. It is a computer program that was developed by DeepMind in late 2017, an artificial intelligence research company founded by Demis Hassabis and subsequently purchased by Google. This AI program used awe inspiring hardware — 5000 custom tensor processing units (TPUs) to self-play tens of millions of games, and 64 second-generation TPUs to train the neural networks. It used no form of external chess knowledge but worked everything out from zero (hence the name). After four hours of work AlphaZero was playing better than the best brute force programs in the world. Here's a ChessBase description of the development: The future is here — AlphaZero learns chess.

Demis has been a friend of ChessBase co-founder Frederic Friedel since the mid 1990s, and his company was quite relaxed about the project and revealing the methods used to generate AlphaZero.

One of the project managers, Thore Gräpel, research lead at Google DeepMind and Professor of Computer Science at the University College London, came to visit ChessBase in Hamburg, where he held a talk for half a dozen of our talented programmers. They went away inspired, determined to learn more about this kind of computer intelligence, and embark on AI projects themselves.

"The Woosh
Back in late September 2018, I had been working on a program called “Deus X”, which was designed to explore and challenge the idea that learning from the best humans and engines, other than itself, would lead to a worse result. Using the open-source project Leela Chess as a foundation, which itself was an attempt to reproduce AlphaZero for the PC, I trained a neural network using millions of top human games from Mega Database and Correspondence Database, as well as engine vs engine games from the Playchess server and the CCRL ratings list. However, I did not reject self-play as a resource. I was only trying to prove that self-play was not the only valid source of content."

"I wanted to round this off with self-play in its mature state, but lacked the resources to do so. I then spoke with my old friend Frederic Friedel, who expressed great interest in my ideas and agreed to help me. In early October 2018 he asked his son Tommy and nephew Noah to build him a really powerful computing machine. They bought the components, consisting of a 12-core processor and two state-of-the-art graphics cards that had just been released. These cards have thousands of graphic and tensor core processor units (GPUs and TPU), originally intended to power 3D video display in games as well as ray-tracing lighting effects. But it turns out that the processors are eminently suited for neural network development.
It is interesting to consider that if this machine had existed around the year 2000 it would have been the most powerful computer in the world!"

"After it was installed, Fred had a very powerful AI machine humming in his home office. Humming? Actually it is a fairly loud whirring sound of multiple fans, dissipating the heat from the 600 watts of energy the computer consumes. That heated the room during the cold Hamburg winter to a very comfortable 23°C, with central heating turned off. The constant sounds of the fans led it to be fondly referred to as “The Woosh”."

"So what do we do with the super-machine? Fred offered me the chance to upload tools that were needed to build a neural network for chess, and once that was completed the machine went to work, playing an average 50,000 games per day against itself. I built myself a second, comparable machine which downloaded the games from the Woosh and learned from them – and from other games. Despite this sizable personal investment, and two strong computers, the project still had a thousand-fold hardware disadvantage when compared to AlphaZero, and at least hundred-fold compared to the community-driven effort Leela Chess. Nevertheless the hybrid mix soon came together in ways even our most optimistic thinking could not have predicted. Not only was it playing at superhuman levels of chess strength, but more importantly it did so in a completely new way, not with brute force tactics but with positional ideas that it has come up with, after studying millions of games and billions of positions."

"Learning from human and computer games
To check the overall playing strength we entered an early version to compete in a well-respected computer tournament held in Leiden, Netherlands, and run by Jan Krabbenbos. It brought together not just the best PC programs around, but also unique efforts such as Jonny, a project that runs on a university server backed by 2400 CPU cores. As a matter of fact Jonny was using a hybrid neural network itself, as part of its makeup, and had beaten Leela in their individual game at the World Computer Championship. So it was not to be underestimated.

After four rounds, the leader was Jonny with a perfect score, followed by “Deus X” (the Fat Fritz prototype) with 3½ out of 4. We locked horns in round five, and after a tough battle, Deus X came out victorious with black, taking over the lead. After seven rounds, we had won the competition with 6 out of 7. That made it the first neural network to win a computer chess tournament. We showed the games to a couple of GM friends for their opinions, and one game stood out to them as utterly unique and beautiful in the attack the neural network built and conducted. See for Yourself (Chessbase Cloud)"

Deux X vs Arasan TCEC 13 2018

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:14 pm
by ChickenLogic
Sadly they don't talk about what the engine actually is and does. Maybe it is just Leela or a slightly modified Leela? If so then A. Silver is just doing what he did when entering DeusX in TCEC. And if it is an original engine why don't they talk about it? For me it sounds like "we trained a super strong leela net".

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:45 pm
by ernest
Funny Albert Silver does not say a word about his Deus X former TCEC participation...

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 am
by dkappe
Just a bunch of mean girls hating on a net trainer.

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 am
by ChickenLogic
dkappe wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 am
Just a bunch of mean girls hating on a net trainer.
Wtf? Just pointing out that this engine he created *might* just be Leela with a custom (probably very strong ) net. In that case he could've just said that instead of horsing around. If in fact he programmed his own search algo while also implementing back-ends as a single person then kudos to him.

From the CB post it isn't clear which engine is used which leads me to believe that he "only" trained a net using the Leela code. If that's so there's still credit to pay to team Leela which he didn't - at least not in this announcement.
Imho training a net, although very time consuming, is not too hard once you get the hang of it (yes I have done it myself). However, writing a GPU backend on your own is more than a great feat.

I hope it is a new engine as we now have the Stein nets, the original Leela nets, the ender, maddex and Good/Bad Gyal nets which all are already Leela/Allie nets. Why would anyone want just another custom Leela net over a unique search algo?

We'll have to wait for some kind of release but until then I'll stick with my current opinion.

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 am
by leavenfish
Komodo 13.02 finds 24...Rh8 with an edge for Black, 2 core on my machine while I was watching an old (not that there are any other!) episode of Hogans Hero's. :D

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 am
by Werewolf
Wasn’t he disqualified from something for basically just copying Lc0 and passing it off as his own work?

Did I just dream that up? I have a vague memory of that but might have got that wrong.

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:57 am
by dkappe
Werewolf wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 am
Wasn’t he disqualified from something for basically just copying Lc0 and passing it off as his own work?

Did I just dream that up? I have a vague memory of that but might have got that wrong.
You dreamed that bit of libelous BS up. TCEC cooked up some seriously odd rules, though, to prevent third party nets from entering with the lc0 net container.

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 am
by Werewolf
dkappe wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:57 am
Werewolf wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 am
Wasn’t he disqualified from something for basically just copying Lc0 and passing it off as his own work?

Did I just dream that up? I have a vague memory of that but might have got that wrong.
You dreamed that bit of libelous BS up. TCEC cooked up some seriously odd rules, though, to prevent third party nets from entering with the lc0 net container.
I’m actually pleased to hear that, I must have misremembered

Re: 'Deus X' Unveiled as FAT FRITZ PROJECT...

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:59 am
by crem
dkappe wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:57 am

You dreamed that bit of libelous BS up. TCEC cooked up some seriously odd rules, though, to prevent third party nets from entering with the lc0 net container.
What is "Lc0 net container"?

"DeusX" was Lc0 binary, Lc0 neural network architecture and implementation, trained with Lc0 scripts (so the only thing different is NN weights, it's not even "different neural net" as some people say).
I don't know what "Fat Fritz" is, but I expect it's the same.

Whether it's fine to commercialize is debatable, but what I don't like the most is that what "Fat Fritz" really is is hidden from people paying money for it.