Could Kai or anyone that has a random player handy run a match between two random player and give me some very basic statistics (mean, and Standard deviation is all I need) about game length between them. It doesn't have to be huge number of games 100 to a 1,000 is plenty I would think. And if possible a random player against a recent version of stock fish at 10 plies or if that's not possible a 10Sec + 0.1sec increment.
Thanks in advance and regards,
Zenmaster
Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
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Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
I did play 10,000 games between RuyRandom and itself and 10,000 games between RuyRandom and latest Stockfish at depth 10, but I am unable to generate the statistics. No opening book was used. Games can be grabbed here:
https://mega.nz/#!P40AxSLY!ZX1w0zmatn4A ... 3kPfxjuKps
https://mega.nz/#!P40AxSLY!ZX1w0zmatn4A ... 3kPfxjuKps
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
I don't know how relevant this is, but this guy did extensive testing between random and many chess algorithms he came up with, including entities that played Stockfish a % of the time, and random the rest of the moves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA
Papers:
http://tom7.org/chess/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA
Papers:
http://tom7.org/chess/
Your beliefs create your reality, so be careful what you wish for.
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
Thank you! I'm sure I can calculate the stats myself, I just didn't have a random player to use. Maybe they should put a pseudo-random player in every engine since they are quite handy for certain theoretical things.pferd wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:11 am I did play 10,000 games between RuyRandom and itself and 10,000 games between RuyRandom and latest Stockfish at depth 10, but I am unable to generate the statistics. No opening book was used. Games can be grabbed here:
https://mega.nz/#!P40AxSLY!ZX1w0zmatn4A ... 3kPfxjuKps
Regards,
Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
CCRL did play a lot of games with random player entities (for scaling the lowest end of the rankings), but probably not much games between themselves and also they most likely played some buggy opponents too with similar problems as random movers.Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:52 am Could Kai or anyone that has a random player handy run a match between two random player and give me some very basic statistics (mean, and Standard deviation is all I need) about game length between them. It doesn't have to be huge number of games 100 to a 1,000 is plenty I would think. And if possible a random player against a recent version of stock fish at 10 plies or if that's not possible a 10Sec + 0.1sec increment.
Thanks in advance and regards,
Zenmaster
Note that your average move length depends a lot on adjudication rules (win and draw adjudication) then, because random movers ofc cannot win/draw easily (if at all), no matter how big or how drawish the eval appears.
Code: Select all
CCRL 40/4 Rating List — All engines
...
635 NEG 0.3d 549 +555 -550 47.6% +32.5 39.6% 2789
636 Ram 2.0 510 +593 -588 40.7% +76.7 58.1% 2486
Acqua 20160918 508 +596 -591 54.7% -21.7 31.7% 3281
637 CPP1 459 +645 -639 46.7% +39.6 46.8% 1810
Alouette 0.0.3 64-bit 430 +674 -669 42.0% +76.0 51.0% 11512
638 POS 1.20 424 +680 -674 57.1% -30.2 45.2% 3106
639 LaMoSca 0.10 368 +736 -730 47.6% +33.0 86.5% 2477
640 ACE 0.1 361 +743 -738 46.0% +62.4 57.4% 3337
Sapeli 1.02 RND 64-bit 283 +821 -816 30.8% +116.7 59.7% 6248
Brutus RND 259 +845 -839 30.4% +150.8 56.7% 2218
https://rwbc-chess.de
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
One billion random games by Steven Edwards: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=40193
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
This might be interesting for you too: (graph with game length distribution per game termination type for rnd movers)
http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... er#p797409
http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... er#p797409
https://rwbc-chess.de
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
Just arrived from a trip. I used the PGN of random mover games supplied in this thread, I saw that there are no adjudications and everything seems fine. Here are some stats on the length:Zenmastur wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:52 am Could Kai or anyone that has a random player handy run a match between two random player and give me some very basic statistics (mean, and Standard deviation is all I need) about game length between them. It doesn't have to be huge number of games 100 to a 1,000 is plenty I would think. And if possible a random player against a recent version of stock fish at 10 plies or if that's not possible a 10Sec + 0.1sec increment.
Thanks in advance and regards,
Zenmaster
Mean = 170.3 moves
Median = 176 moves
Standard Deviation = 55.6 moves
Here is the histogram on length of the games:
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
One question: how many threads was SF running and what hardware it was running one.pferd wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:11 am I did play 10,000 games between RuyRandom and itself and 10,000 games between RuyRandom and latest Stockfish at depth 10, but I am unable to generate the statistics. No opening book was used. Games can be grabbed here:
https://mega.nz/#!P40AxSLY!ZX1w0zmatn4A ... 3kPfxjuKps
I also found a copy of RuyRandom so now I can do it myself. I had no clue so many utils for random play are out there. I should have guessed since MCTS is so popular.
Thanks again,
Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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Re: Game length between random players... Kai Laskos
A very nice thread!Branko Radovanovic wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:33 pm One billion random games by Steven Edwards: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=40193
Thank you!
Regards,
Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.