Fireworks for the Fourth

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chrisw
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by chrisw » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:04 pm

jp wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:44 pm
chrisw wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 am
I guess my gripe is that the computer chess forum is simply ‘Americanised’, as reflected in the apparent okay-ness of naming and posting a program named after a war criminal. That I find actually offensive, and insensitive. Possibly how you’ld feel if games from Goebbels v1.1 were posted a lot.
Just for clarity, who is the war criminal?
You mean which war criminal has been normalised here by having a program named after him and constantly promoted?

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/stop ... ead0fcc784

jp
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by jp » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:20 pm

I thought you meant a program in this thread.

carldaman
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Re: Fireworks for the fourth.

Post by carldaman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:25 pm

Ajedrecista wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 am
Hello:
carldaman wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:24 am
[...]



[...]
Why 39.- Rf4+ is labelled as checkmate (#)? Are not possible 39.- ..., Kh6 and 39.- ..., Kh7 moves? It might be an engine problem or a GUI problem.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
For some reason Kh5 became h5 when I relayed the moves - anyway, I have fixed the pgn. Rf4 is really a checkmate :) Thanks for pointing this out.

carldaman
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by carldaman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:46 pm

chrisw wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 am
carldaman wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:19 pm
chrisw wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:38 am

This is a world-wide forum about computer chess. Not everybody, by any means, supports USA, or its Independence Day. Nor is everybody American. Some of us see the US as an enemy nation, I certainly do. Same goes for naming programs after War Criminals. The idea on these forums is that politics go to CTF.
Well, the main content of the post was really about spectacular chess. The holiday was just an opportunity to stay up late and post some great chess games. Surprised you didn't comment on those, since your CSTAL pioneered the same wild attacking style and that was also an inspiration for 'Nezh.

(Besides, just because someone values and respects the principles upon which the nation was founded does not mean he/she supports all its current or past policies. You can be sure of that.)
yes, thanks for that. I guess one of the reasons I might not comment on games is that I have no way to distinguish most posters anymore, gone are the days when people were using their real names, and thus I can’t predistinguish who is worth reading and who not. So many handles.

I was at the annual Soviet/Russian War Memorial service in London on May 9, celebrating Victory in the Great Patriotic War, followed by Immortal Regiment parade through central London. I sense that making celebratory passing comments to that would not go down too well here. For sure, celebratory comments about Peoples Liberation Army Victory over USA in Vietnam, would get some hostility, I think, even though I feel as strongly about that as you may over Independence Day. I wouldn’t mention it anyway, because I’m not particularly socially connected to this forum, but if I felt the need to mention it in passing, I’ld self-censor based on imagined reaction. I guess my gripe is that the computer chess forum is simply ‘Americanised’, as reflected in the apparent okay-ness of naming and posting a program named after a war criminal. That I find actually offensive, and insensitive. Possibly how you’ld feel if games from Goebbels v1.1 were posted a lot.

Anyway, I hope you had a good holiday
Thanks, I did. :)

I can say that I do know what you are talking about as far naming a program about a shady political figure (to avoid using stronger words), but I kind of suspect that the author of that program has no idea that the war-mongering politician in question was something less than a hero. I was very tempted to object to it at the time. There are at least two sides to most stories, and insisting on just one side turns it into nothing but propaganda.

Anyway, this being an English language US-based forum after all maybe has a lot to do what makes it feel rather Americanized.

By the way, are you again working on a newer version of CSTAL? I recall seeing some sample games in the Rybka forum about a year and a half ago.

Take care,
Carl

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Guenther
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by Guenther » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:25 pm

carldaman wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:49 am
It is a private engine specializing in fearless attacking chess. Once in a while, when I have time, I will post some of its games for entertainment purposes. :)
I thought it is OpenTal with slight modifications? Last time I checked that was true.
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carldaman
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by carldaman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:06 pm

It is not OpenTal, although the approach is in a similar vein, but it's quite a lot stronger. A while back I even posted a game where it defeated OpenTal in a direct encounter.

chrisw
Posts: 1847
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Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by chrisw » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:21 pm

carldaman wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:46 pm
chrisw wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 am
carldaman wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:19 pm
chrisw wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:38 am

This is a world-wide forum about computer chess. Not everybody, by any means, supports USA, or its Independence Day. Nor is everybody American. Some of us see the US as an enemy nation, I certainly do. Same goes for naming programs after War Criminals. The idea on these forums is that politics go to CTF.
Well, the main content of the post was really about spectacular chess. The holiday was just an opportunity to stay up late and post some great chess games. Surprised you didn't comment on those, since your CSTAL pioneered the same wild attacking style and that was also an inspiration for 'Nezh.

(Besides, just because someone values and respects the principles upon which the nation was founded does not mean he/she supports all its current or past policies. You can be sure of that.)
yes, thanks for that. I guess one of the reasons I might not comment on games is that I have no way to distinguish most posters anymore, gone are the days when people were using their real names, and thus I can’t predistinguish who is worth reading and who not. So many handles.

I was at the annual Soviet/Russian War Memorial service in London on May 9, celebrating Victory in the Great Patriotic War, followed by Immortal Regiment parade through central London. I sense that making celebratory passing comments to that would not go down too well here. For sure, celebratory comments about Peoples Liberation Army Victory over USA in Vietnam, would get some hostility, I think, even though I feel as strongly about that as you may over Independence Day. I wouldn’t mention it anyway, because I’m not particularly socially connected to this forum, but if I felt the need to mention it in passing, I’ld self-censor based on imagined reaction. I guess my gripe is that the computer chess forum is simply ‘Americanised’, as reflected in the apparent okay-ness of naming and posting a program named after a war criminal. That I find actually offensive, and insensitive. Possibly how you’ld feel if games from Goebbels v1.1 were posted a lot.

Anyway, I hope you had a good holiday
Thanks, I did. :)

I can say that I do know what you are talking about as far naming a program about a shady political figure (to avoid using stronger words), but I kind of suspect that the author of that program has no idea that the war-mongering politician in question was something less than a hero. I was very tempted to object to it at the time. There are at least two sides to most stories, and insisting on just one side turns it into nothing but propaganda.

Anyway, this being an English language US-based forum after all maybe has a lot to do what makes it feel rather Americanized.

By the way, are you again working on a newer version of CSTAL? I recall seeing some sample games in the Rybka forum about a year and a half ago.

Take care,
Carl
No, no point, imo, in lone programmers trying to compete with hand crafted chess AI. If I could come up with something NN-wise that targeted mania, maybe, but that is a pretty tall order. I’ld name it Ho Chi Minh v1.0 and post games on Victory Day of Peoples Liberation Army against drugged out US war criminals, with links to helicopters being tossed into the sea, retreating enemy CIA queueing for helicopters and war criminal in the jail he should have been kept in for life.

Well, the point really, is that on international forums dealing with essentially apolitical special interests, it’s a mix of insensitive and provocative to openly flaunt contentious and sided material, specially when it’s contentious on the side of the ruling class. It also has the effect of reinforcing the shrinking process. Interesting you considered complaining at the time. When good people remain silent and all that.

carldaman
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Fireworks for the Fourth

Post by carldaman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:00 pm

It bothered me, too, to remain silent, but I felt I lacked the stamina to engage in the heated debate that was certainly to follow. Perhaps pointing out a simple alternative point of view would have sufficed.
:(

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