Ovyron wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:04 am
What happened here?
Two things happened:
Draw death of engine- chesss and black box- death of intelligibilty of engine- chess.
Like Chrilly Donninger used to say, it's like watching the washer washing the laundry.
SF et al already were rather unintelligible in their ways of playing, NNs are fully. And I'm not talking about me and my poor chess- knowledge only, I'm talking about human masters and Grandmasters as well.
I know some of them, more in corr.- chess than in over the board playing, but in both rather different groups the tenor is the same, don't even try to understand the moves and games of SF nor of NN- engines, the latter ones even less then the first ones.
Of course that doesn't give good publicity for a to be well known chess player to say so, not to the audience and not to the opponents, it's more smart to write commentaries, even whole books and have youtube- videos about glorious NN- games and -moves, in one thing chessplayers were always even better then in playing, in commenting post mortem games with full of positional and understanding proving wording.
Funniest thing about that all to me is always reading once and again about "human style" of NN- engines.
With SF you could at least try to understand, what was going on with some Forward- Backward, with NNs you can do as much FW- BW as you like, the "engine" is as "unteachable" and "unconvincible" as for alternative moves as you are yourself with the NN- engines' moves.
With SF et al you could at least try to find out connections between moves and code and parameters to be changed by the programmer and the user.
With NNs you can't, not even as a well trained specialized chess-programmer.
So what to do with these new gods in chess? Not even letting them play against each other and count the points in the end only, forgetting about the games and moves themselves, brings up any excitement anymore, cause number of points depend mainly on the pool of opponents, on the openings and on the given hardware- time.
Progress may go on and on, what do we see and measure of it, if there's much too much draw for the number of games to be played for a significant single decision and full lack of transitivity to other pools of NNs and engines given?
So what?