REBEL 10 benchmark on modern computer

[Rebel]

Hi Ed,
I just compare the speed for Rebel 12 under DosBox and under Qemu and both are running around 120 Kn/sec.
So, about no speed difference for me.

Vincent

I checked and you are right, perhaps Franz can explain why we wrote 3 x times faster than DosBox. Maybe it's true foe other Dossies, I would not know.

[Colin-G]

Hi Ed,
I just compare the speed for Rebel 12 under DosBox and under Qemu and both are running around 120 Kn/sec.
So, about no speed difference for me.

Vincent

I checked and you are right, perhaps Franz can explain why we wrote 3 x times faster than DosBox. Maybe it's true foe other Dossies, I would not know.

DosBox is a virtual machine that only runs DOS programs.
Qemu is a virtual machine that can run many different operating systems.
Perhaps Qemu had Windows 95 or 98 installed and Rebel was running in DOS mode on that.
I seem to remember running Windows 98 in Qemu may years ago, and it was not much slower than using native Windows 98. I vaguely remember running it with some addon accelerator option to get a similar speed.
I recently tried to install Windows 98SE in the latest version of Qemu, but it randomly crashes out during the installation.

Code: Select all

qemu-img create windows.img 3G
qemu-system-x86_64 -machine ubuntu,accel=kvm -cdrom /dev/cdrom -m 500 -boot d windows.img

I eventually gave up and switched to VirtualBox instead.

[Vinvin]

...

Thanks for your test !
Yes, the speed displayed on my screen was around 95Kn/sec and your speed is around 500 Kn/sec in native mode.
I searched for a speed comparison between a N3050 and a i7@4GHz, the latest seems around 4 times faster.
That means with a fast recent CPU, Rebel 10 could reach 2 Mn/sec
I'll take a closer look at VirtualBox !

I finally succeed in running Rebel 12 under VMware (free version).
I had to start with the "V" parameter.
According to the manual, that means :

Code: Select all

16.2.1    MS-DOS Graphical problems (VESA)

Some (older) graphical adaptors are not fully VESA compatible. You can 
bypass REBEL's VESA mode by running REBEL with the "V" option. 

Example: REBEL.EXE V 

This means REBEL will start in VGA mode.

I tried the same trick with Rebel 10 and Rebel 8 but both crash just after starting.

The speed of Rebel 12 is around 2.4 Mn/sec (i7-4930K@4 Ghz) on the same position :
( Note : under DOSBox, the speed is around 150 Kn/sec. So the speed of Rebel is divided by 16 under DOSBox.)

[Chessqueen]

...

Thanks for your test !
Yes, the speed displayed on my screen was around 95Kn/sec and your speed is around 500 Kn/sec in native mode.
I searched for a speed comparison between a N3050 and a i7@4GHz, the latest seems around 4 times faster.
That means with a fast recent CPU, Rebel 10 could reach 2 Mn/sec
I'll take a closer look at VirtualBox !

I finally succeed in running Rebel 12 under VMware (free version).
I had to start with the "V" parameter.
According to the manual, that means :

Code: Select all

16.2.1    MS-DOS Graphical problems (VESA)

Some (older) graphical adaptors are not fully VESA compatible. You can 
bypass REBEL's VESA mode by running REBEL with the "V" option. 

Example: REBEL.EXE V 

This means REBEL will start in VGA mode.

I tried the same trick with Rebel 10 and Rebel 8 but both crash just after starting.

The speed of Rebel 12 is around 2.4 Mn/sec (i7-4930K@4 Ghz) on the same position :
( Note : under DOSBox, the speed is around 150 Kn/sec. So the speed of Rebel is divided by 16 under DOSBox.)

Try to reproduce Rebel 10 move by move from this Famous Match Versus Vishy Anand in 1998 and see if most of the move made by Rebel are reproduce ==>

https://www.dailychess.com/chess/grandm ... than-Anand

https://www.dailychess.com/chess/grandm ... p-Rebel-10

[Vinvin]

Try to reproduce Rebel 10 move by move from this Famous Match Versus Vishy Anand in 1998 and see if most of the move made by Rebel are reproduce ==>

https://www.dailychess.com/chess/grandm ... than-Anand

https://www.dailychess.com/chess/grandm ... p-Rebel-10

Rebel lost this game
Computer eval with graph here : https://lichess.org/ocgamd1P#56
29.d5? seems to be the losing mistake.
And a big mistake is 18.Qh5? , 18.g3 or 18.O-O is way better.
The story here : https://www.rebel.nl/july23.htm

[mbabigian]

I tried installing Rebel 10 under MSDOS 6.22 and it requested a serial number. Is there something that can be typed there that it will accept?

I get "[0003] This is not an offical Rebel10 Cdrom!" otherwise.

[Vinvin]

I tried installing Rebel 10 under MSDOS 6.22 and it requested a serial number. Is there something that can be typed there that it will accept?

I get "[0003] This is not an offical Rebel10 Cdrom!" otherwise.

Try the version from here : http://rebel13.nl/dos/rebel%2010.html ("Download" at bottom of the page)

[mbabigian]

Try the version from here : http://rebel13.nl/dos/rebel%2010.html ("Download" at bottom of the page)

That version installs under D-Fend reloaded. I don't want to install it under an emulator. The whole issue of terrible performance noted in this thread seems so to be because people are loading it under emulators. I want to install under MSDOS 6.22. I didn't try it, but I seriously doubt the installer at that link will run under MSDOS.

If Ed can provide a serial number, I can provide a benchmark score on a 3970x.

[mbabigian]

I downloaded the other version, extracted Rebel.exe only, and ran it under MSDOS 6.22. It popped up with "Calculating machine's internal speed please wait..." That was 30 minutes ago and I'm still waiting. I suspect the machine is running too fast for this old program to work. Like the old DOS Turbo Pascal programs that would crash once the speed of newer machines overflowed the machine speed calculation used for the "Delay" and "Sound" functions. Used to get a runtime error 200 if I recall correctly.

In this case, the program seems to just run the calculation forever. Sad, because I was hoping to crush the old KryoTech machine. The mystery of modern hardware speed will remain an enigma!

[Vinvin]

Try the version from here : http://rebel13.nl/dos/rebel%2010.html ("Download" at bottom of the page)

That version installs under D-Fend reloaded.

I think you can run it without emulator.

I downloaded the other version, extracted Rebel.exe only, and ran it under MSDOS 6.22. It popped up with "Calculating machine's internal speed please wait..." That was 30 minutes ago and I'm still waiting.
...
In this case, the program seems to just run the calculation forever. Sad, because I was hoping to crush the old KryoTech machine. The mystery of modern hardware speed will remain an enigma!

That's the same "crash" as I got.
I computed that my 5 years old CPU would run the bench for the 3rd position in about 6 seconds with Rebel 10, compare to 33 seconds for the KryoTech 1 Ghz.
It's 10.5 millions nodes in this position :
[d]r4rk1/5ppp/p2pbb2/3B3Q/qp2p3/4B3/PPP2P1P/2KR2R1 w - - id BENCH (3);