sting 15

[lech]

Storing the answers to common problems is a dirty trick.

Do you mean tablebases too?

Any way you can solve it yourself is not.

[Dann Corbit]

Storing the answers to common problems is a dirty trick.

Do you mean tablebases too?

Any way you can solve it yourself is not.

No. Tableware access is fine. I mean storing the answer to analysis of a famous problem and returning that answer. IOW cheating.

[jp]

I added auto-playing only to get the full PV-line (mate or draw), but now I see that it can be used to solve some difficult positions (very long solution) too.

There is still only one important question. Is auto-playing used to get solution a dirty trick or not?

In my opinion not! Auto-playing doesn't change rules, parameters of engine, doesn't use an external knowledge.
And why to solve a position searching is to be prefered, and playing not?

Can you give more details on what auto-playing does?

[lech]

I added auto-playing only to get the full PV-line (mate or draw), but now I see that it can be used to solve some difficult positions (very long solution) too.

There is still only one important question. Is auto-playing used to get solution a dirty trick or not?

In my opinion not! Auto-playing doesn't change rules, parameters of engine, doesn't use an external knowledge.
And why to solve a position searching is to be prefered, and playing not?

Can you give more details on what auto-playing does?

I can add 2 next examples.
It should be clear for all who can use the command (black window) line.
If you use only a GUI (e.g. Fritz or others), I don't know: gives any GUI possibilty to play a position by only one engine (the same hash), or not?

The alpha-beta searching grows like a reversed pyramid. Sometimes it has no sense to wait for the next depth line.

Bold = input lines.

[d]k1b5/1p1p1p1p/1PpPpP2/2B5/8/2p1p2P/2PbP3/3K4 w - - 0 1
sting-sf-15
Sting 15 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 by Marek Kwiatkowski
setoption name hash value 1024
setoption name clear hash value true
setoption name threads value 1
position fen k1b5/1p1p1p1p/1PpPpP2/2B5/8/2p1p2P/2PbP3/3K4 w - - 0 1
go movetime 3600000
---
<click Ctrl keyboard button to stop solution>
stop
info depth 50 multipv 1 score cp 402 nodes 1636300910 nps 1293452 time 1265065 pv c5d4
go movetime 10000 play forward 1
a8b8 d4e5 b8a8 e5f4 h7h5 f4h6 a8b8 h6f8 b8a8 f8e7 a8b8 e7d8 b8a8 d8c7 c6c5 c7d8 a8b8 d8e7 b8a8 e7f8 a8b8 f8g7 b8a8 g7h6 a8b8 h6f8 b8a8 f8e7 a8b8 e7d8 b8a8 d8c7 c5c4 c7d8 a8b8 d8e7 b8a8 e7f8 a8b8 f8h6 b8a8 h6g7 a8b8 g7f8 b8a8 f8e7 a8b8 e7d8 b8a8 d8c7 e6e5 c7d8 a8b8 d8e7 b8a8 e7f8 a8b8 f8h6 b8a8 h6g5 a8b8 g5h4 b8a8 h4g3 e5e4 g3f4 a8b8 f4h6 b8a8 h6g7 a8b8 g7f8 d2c1 d1c1 b8a8 f8h6 a8b8 c1d1 b8a8 d1e1 a8b8 h6e3 b8a8 e1f2 h5h4 e3g5 e4e3 f2g1 a8b8 g5h4 b8a8 h4e1 a8b8 h3h4 b8a8 h4h5 a8b8 h5h6 b8a8 h6h7 a8b8 h7h8q b8a8 h8c8 Black is mated

[d]4b3/8/1P6/3K4/6p1/5pP1/5P1B/7k w - - 0 1
sting-sf-15
Sting 15 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 by Marek Kwiatkowski
setoption name hash value 1024
setoption name clear hash value true
setoption name threads value 1
position fen 4b3/8/1P6/3K4/6p1/5pP1/5P1B/7k w - - 0 1
go movetime 3600000
---
<click Ctrl keyboard button to stop solution>
stop
info depth 36 multipv 1 score cp 985 nodes 51494919 nps 917275 time 56139 pv b6b7 e8b5 b7b8r
go movetime 10000 play forward 3
b5a4 b8b4 a4d7 d5d6 d7c8 b4c4 c8a6 c4g4 h1h2 g4a4 a6f1 g3g4 h2g2 d6e5 g2f2 e5f4 f1e2 g4g5 f2g2 a4a2 g2g1 a2a1 g1g2 f4e3 e2c4 a1b1 g2g3 g5g6 f3f2 g6g7 g3g4 e3f2 g4f5 b1b8 f5e5 f2e3 e5d6 e3d4 c4a2 g7g8q a2g8 b8g8 d6e6 g8g5 e6e7 d4e5 e7d7 g5g6 d7c7 e5d5 c7b7 d5d6 b7b6 g6g5 b6b7 g5b5 b7a6 d6c6 a6a7 b5a5 a7b8 a5a1 b8c8 a1a8 Black is mated

[Vinvin]

I added auto-playing only to get the full PV-line (mate or draw), but now I see that it can be used to solve some difficult positions (very long solution) too.

It seems to be like Monte-Carlo algorithm : deepening some lines to get exact score very deep in those lines.

[lech]

I added auto-playing only to get the full PV-line (mate or draw), but now I see that it can be used to solve some difficult positions (very long solution) too.

It seems to be like Monte-Carlo algorithm : deepening some lines to get exact score very deep in those lines.

Absolutely NOT, Monte Carlo is like the blind in the forest. Auto-playing it is a play (only one) based on a solid searching.

[lech]

I see that the auto-playing is an interesting new tool and you like it.
One more example.

When your longanimity (searching) ends, you can go forward and start searching from the new place or (or next) can check the new position by auto-playing. You can always stop auto-playing and display diagram (d) or score (eval) and start auto-playing with new time per move or start searching at the new place.

bold = input lines
[d]8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
sting-sf-15
Sting 15 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 by Marek Kwiatkowski
setoption name hash value 1024
setoption name clear hash value true
setoption name threads value 1
position fen 8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
go movetime 3600000
info depth 35 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 365201479 nps 736082 time 496142 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g6 e5c3 b1c3 e1g1 c3b1 h3h4 a2a1q g1h2 a1a5 f1b1 g6f5 b1e1 a5c3 e1e7 c3c6 e7e1 c6c7 e1c1 c7a7 c1a1 a7h7 a1e1 f5f6 e1e8 h7f7 e8e1 f7g6 e1d1 f6e5 d1a1 g6f7 a1a5 e5d4 a5a4 d4e3 a4a5 e3f2 a5e5 f2f1 e5a5 f1e2
info depth 36 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 442224980 nps 729709 time 606029 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
<click Ctrl keyboard button to stop solution>
stop
info depth 37 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 445023885 nps 723819 time 614827 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
go movetime 60000 play forward 3
g6g7 a2a1q e1g1 a1a7 g1h2 a7c5 f1f8 c5f8 g7f8q g8f8 h2g1 f8f7 e5f4 b1d2 g1f2 d2b3 f2e2 c3c2 e2d3 c2c1q f4c1 b3c1 d3d2 g4h3 g2h3 c1b3 d2e3 f7g6 e3f4 b3d4 h3h4 d4e6 f4e5 e6c5 e5f4 c5d3 f4e4 d3f2 e4f3 f2g4 f3f4 g6f6 f4e4 g4e5 e4f4 e5g6 f4e4 f6e6 g3g4 h5g4 h4h5 g6e5 h5h6 e6f7 h6h7 f7g7 h7h8n g7h8 e4f4 h8g8 f4e3 g8g7 e3e2 g7g6 e2d1 g4g3 d1e2 g6f6 e2e1 f6f5 e1f1 e5d3 f1g1 f5f4 g1g2 f4g4 g2f1 g4f3 f1g1 g3g2 g1h2 f3f2 h2h3 g2g1q h3h4 g1g6 h4h3 g6g3 White is mated

What happened here?
The moves 1... a2 2. fxg6+ Kxg6 lead to fortress.
Black can avoid the fortress by 2... Kg8 but it leads to a very long difficult endgame.

[Paloma]

Hi Marek,

what is exactly the difference between

forward 1 play,
forward 14 play,
play forward 1,
play forward 6

in your examples from above.

What means the number 1, 14 , 6

[camava]

I see that the auto-playing is an interesting new tool and you like it.
One more example.

When your longanimity (searching) ends, you can go forward and start searching from the new place or (or next) can check the new position by auto-playing. You can always stop auto-playing and display diagram (d) or score (eval) and start auto-playing with new time per move or start searching at the new place.

bold = input lines
[d]8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
sting-sf-15
Sting 15 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 by Marek Kwiatkowski
setoption name hash value 1024
setoption name clear hash value true
setoption name threads value 1
position fen 8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
go movetime 3600000
info depth 35 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 365201479 nps 736082 time 496142 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g6 e5c3 b1c3 e1g1 c3b1 h3h4 a2a1q g1h2 a1a5 f1b1 g6f5 b1e1 a5c3 e1e7 c3c6 e7e1 c6c7 e1c1 c7a7 c1a1 a7h7 a1e1 f5f6 e1e8 h7f7 e8e1 f7g6 e1d1 f6e5 d1a1 g6f7 a1a5 e5d4 a5a4 d4e3 a4a5 e3f2 a5e5 f2f1 e5a5 f1e2
info depth 36 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 442224980 nps 729709 time 606029 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
<click Ctrl keyboard button to stop solution>
stop
info depth 37 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 445023885 nps 723819 time 614827 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
go movetime 60000 play forward 3
g6g7 a2a1q e1g1 a1a7 g1h2 a7c5 f1f8 c5f8 g7f8q g8f8 h2g1 f8f7 e5f4 b1d2 g1f2 d2b3 f2e2 c3c2 e2d3 c2c1q f4c1 b3c1 d3d2 g4h3 g2h3 c1b3 d2e3 f7g6 e3f4 b3d4 h3h4 d4e6 f4e5 e6c5 e5f4 c5d3 f4e4 d3f2 e4f3 f2g4 f3f4 g6f6 f4e4 g4e5 e4f4 e5g6 f4e4 f6e6 g3g4 h5g4 h4h5 g6e5 h5h6 e6f7 h6h7 f7g7 h7h8n g7h8 e4f4 h8g8 f4e3 g8g7 e3e2 g7g6 e2d1 g4g3 d1e2 g6f6 e2e1 f6f5 e1f1 e5d3 f1g1 f5f4 g1g2 f4g4 g2f1 g4f3 f1g1 g3g2 g1h2 f3f2 h2h3 g2g1q h3h4 g1g6 h4h3 g6g3 White is mated

What happened here?
The moves 1... a2 2. fxg6+ Kxg6 lead to fortress.
Black can avoid the fortress by 2... Kg8 but it leads to a very long difficult endgame.

Hi lech,how did you find 2....Kg8?
thank you

[camava]

I see that the auto-playing is an interesting new tool and you like it.
One more example.

When your longanimity (searching) ends, you can go forward and start searching from the new place or (or next) can check the new position by auto-playing. You can always stop auto-playing and display diagram (d) or score (eval) and start auto-playing with new time per move or start searching at the new place.

bold = input lines
[d]8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
sting-sf-15
Sting 15 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 by Marek Kwiatkowski
setoption name hash value 1024
setoption name clear hash value true
setoption name threads value 1
position fen 8/5k2/6p1/4BP1p/6p1/p1p3PP/6P1/1n2K2R b K - 0 1
go movetime 3600000
info depth 35 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 365201479 nps 736082 time 496142 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g6 e5c3 b1c3 e1g1 c3b1 h3h4 a2a1q g1h2 a1a5 f1b1 g6f5 b1e1 a5c3 e1e7 c3c6 e7e1 c6c7 e1c1 c7a7 c1a1 a7h7 a1e1 f5f6 e1e8 h7f7 e8e1 f7g6 e1d1 f6e5 d1a1 g6f7 a1a5 e5d4 a5a4 d4e3 a4a5 e3f2 a5e5 f2f1 e5a5 f1e2
info depth 36 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 442224980 nps 729709 time 606029 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
<click Ctrl keyboard button to stop solution>
stop
info depth 37 multipv 1 score cp 557 nodes 445023885 nps 723819 time 614827 pv a3a2 f5g6 f7g8
go movetime 60000 play forward 3
g6g7 a2a1q e1g1 a1a7 g1h2 a7c5 f1f8 c5f8 g7f8q g8f8 h2g1 f8f7 e5f4 b1d2 g1f2 d2b3 f2e2 c3c2 e2d3 c2c1q f4c1 b3c1 d3d2 g4h3 g2h3 c1b3 d2e3 f7g6 e3f4 b3d4 h3h4 d4e6 f4e5 e6c5 e5f4 c5d3 f4e4 d3f2 e4f3 f2g4 f3f4 g6f6 f4e4 g4e5 e4f4 e5g6 f4e4 f6e6 g3g4 h5g4 h4h5 g6e5 h5h6 e6f7 h6h7 f7g7 h7h8n g7h8 e4f4 h8g8 f4e3 g8g7 e3e2 g7g6 e2d1 g4g3 d1e2 g6f6 e2e1 f6f5 e1f1 e5d3 f1g1 f5f4 g1g2 f4g4 g2f1 g4f3 f1g1 g3g2 g1h2 f3f2 h2h3 g2g1q h3h4 g1g6 h4h3 g6g3 White is mated

What happened here?
The moves 1... a2 2. fxg6+ Kxg6 lead to fortress.
Black can avoid the fortress by 2... Kg8 but it leads to a very long difficult endgame.

Hi lech,how did you find 2....Kg8?
thank you

sorry,my PC is old and something was bad,after 5 minutes it found 2....Kg8