Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

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adams161
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Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by adams161 » Fri May 24, 2019 7:27 am

I"m working with logging FR games, chess 960, to PGN and I thought they were cataloged by position number like this is FR position #89 of 960. Are there any official sites that keep this type of data like the fens that make up what FR boards or positions? Is this a state tracked in the FR PGN at all or is it just variant chess960 and the "FEN" PGN tag? Seems like a lot of computer chess has been done with FR such as running FR games etc so thought it might exist. For example i heard:
We know this for example from a very large number of computer games — over 200,000 played by the Computer Chess Ratings List team in 2005–2008.
The comment there was related to the asymmetrical nature of winning chances in many FR positions. But me rather than solve FR's problems am interested if this type of data has been compiled and can be shown in PGN.

But still a good link were above quote came from and giving it here, https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-problem-with-chess960

Mike Adams

MikeB
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by MikeB » Fri May 24, 2019 1:07 pm

adams161 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:27 am
I"m working with logging FR games, chess 960, to PGN and I thought they were cataloged by position number like this is FR position #89 of 960. Are there any official sites that keep this type of data like the fens that make up what FR boards or positions? Is this a state tracked in the FR PGN at all or is it just variant chess960 and the "FEN" PGN tag? Seems like a lot of computer chess has been done with FR such as running FR games etc so thought it might exist. For example i heard:
We know this for example from a very large number of computer games — over 200,000 played by the Computer Chess Ratings List team in 2005–2008.
The comment there was related to the asymmetrical nature of winning chances in many FR positions. But me rather than solve FR's problems am interested if this type of data has been compiled and can be shown in PGN.

But still a good link were above quote came from and giving it here, https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-problem-with-chess960

Mike Adams
Does this work for you Mike?
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FEN960.txt.zip
(9.59 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

MikeB
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by MikeB » Fri May 24, 2019 1:17 pm

MikeB wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:07 pm
adams161 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:27 am
I"m working with logging FR games, chess 960, to PGN and I thought they were cataloged by position number like this is FR position #89 of 960. Are there any official sites that keep this type of data like the fens that make up what FR boards or positions? Is this a state tracked in the FR PGN at all or is it just variant chess960 and the "FEN" PGN tag? Seems like a lot of computer chess has been done with FR such as running FR games etc so thought it might exist. For example i heard:
We know this for example from a very large number of computer games — over 200,000 played by the Computer Chess Ratings List team in 2005–2008.
The comment there was related to the asymmetrical nature of winning chances in many FR positions. But me rather than solve FR's problems am interested if this type of data has been compiled and can be shown in PGN.

But still a good link were above quote came from and giving it here, https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-problem-with-chess960

Mike Adams
Does this work for you Mike?
ps this was the source of my data - through the magic of sed , I just put it in a more useable format.
https://www.mark-weeks.com/cfaa/chess960/c960strt.htm

adams161
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by adams161 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:07 am

MikeB wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:17 pm
MikeB wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:07 pm
adams161 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:27 am
I"m working with logging FR games, chess 960, to PGN and I thought they were cataloged by position number like this is FR position #89 of 960. Are there any official sites that keep this type of data like the fens that make up what FR boards or positions? Is this a state tracked in the FR PGN at all or is it just variant chess960 and the "FEN" PGN tag? Seems like a lot of computer chess has been done with FR such as running FR games etc so thought it might exist. For example i heard:
We know this for example from a very large number of computer games — over 200,000 played by the Computer Chess Ratings List team in 2005–2008.
The comment there was related to the asymmetrical nature of winning chances in many FR positions. But me rather than solve FR's problems am interested if this type of data has been compiled and can be shown in PGN.

But still a good link were above quote came from and giving it here, https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-problem-with-chess960

Mike Adams
Does this work for you Mike?
ps this was the source of my data - through the magic of sed , I just put it in a more useable format.
https://www.mark-weeks.com/cfaa/chess960/c960strt.htm
I decided not to use the idea of tagging FR variant PGN with the FR position number. It seemed more useful if i wanted to make a UI around it like play the FR board of your choice or play an FR board out of your history. It could be useful but without more user feedback to gauge interest I didn't think it was worth getting into release one of Pulsar with Chess960.

But pulsar chess engine with chess 960 is in release now at https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pulsar-ch ... d839640447 for iOS and https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... e&hl=en_US for Android.

It also saves all completed Chess 960 games with a result and users can play back history games from the Log that are chess 960 variant.

thanks you for the information though and i'll keep it in mind.

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Roland Chastain
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by Roland Chastain » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:04 pm

adams161 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:07 am
It could be useful but without more user feedback to gauge interest I didn't think it was worth getting into release one of Pulsar with Chess960.

But pulsar chess engine with chess 960 is in release now at https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pulsar-ch ... d839640447 for iOS and https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... e&hl=en_US for Android.
For me, I use often Pulsar 2009 to test my own engines. I would be glad to see a new version for Windows. :wink:

By the way, here is another file with the 960 FRC start positions, in the order proposed by R.Scharnagl (where line 519 is the standard position).

The file was generated using this program.

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Roland Chastain
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by Roland Chastain » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:45 pm

A short version, with only white pieces.
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fischerandom2.zip
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adams161
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by adams161 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:45 am

Roland Chastain wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:04 pm
For me, I use often Pulsar 2009 to test my own engines. I would be glad to see a new version for Windows. :wink:
A few people tell me they run the engine. Always happy to hear that is getting use. As to improvements, well so far while i've not forced it, but bugs have not taken me to the engine. If my main tester can test more and find engine bugs maybe we'd get to a new release

On the FR stuff, just not interested in doing any UI around it mainly right now so not sure the point to add fen position numbers to PGN. Anyone know by the way if you even did add a fen position to PGN is there a PGN tag for that? I guess i'm wondering how custom this all is. Are there any agreed on fr position numbers or does everyone have their own system? MikeB and you Roland both offer a method but i'm not sure the position numbers would agree .

Also if i run one of these solutions, i don't want a tool, i want a database like string comparisons if i loaded all these fens into a map and then i have aboard i plug in the fen and get position 39. But it's less useful to me if there is no standardization. I could just ask does anyone know of a download of all 960 position fens and assign my own numbers if nothing is standard.
Mike

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Roland Chastain
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by Roland Chastain » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:18 am

adams161 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:45 am
On the FR stuff, just not interested in doing any UI around it mainly right now so not sure the point to add fen position numbers to PGN. Anyone know by the way if you even did add a fen position to PGN is there a PGN tag for that? I guess i'm wondering how custom this all is. Are there any agreed on fr position numbers or does everyone have their own system? MikeB and you Roland both offer a method but i'm not sure the position numbers would agree .
I don't believe that the FEN number is requested in PGN.

The file proposed by MikeB and the file that I proposed have a different presentation but the same content. You can see that in both files, the standard start position has the number 519. As far as I know, that numbering method is commonly accepted. That's why you can read everywhere that the standard start position is the position 518 (because one counts from zero). I believe that that method was proposed by Reinhard Scharnagl.

I don't understand your last question (about a download of all 960 positions) because both MikeB and I have already provided a file with the 960 positions. In the file that I proposed, the number of the position is simply the number of the line.

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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by MikeB » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:01 pm

Roland Chastain wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:18 am
adams161 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:45 am
On the FR stuff, just not interested in doing any UI around it mainly right now so not sure the point to add fen position numbers to PGN. Anyone know by the way if you even did add a fen position to PGN is there a PGN tag for that? I guess i'm wondering how custom this all is. Are there any agreed on fr position numbers or does everyone have their own system? MikeB and you Roland both offer a method but i'm not sure the position numbers would agree .
I don't believe that the FEN number is requested in PGN.

The file proposed by MikeB and the file that I proposed have a different presentation but the same content. You can see that in both files, the standard start position has the number 519. As far as I know, that numbering method is commonly accepted. That's why you can read everywhere that the standard start position is the position 518 (because one counts from zero). I believe that that method was proposed by Reinhard Scharnagl.

I don't understand your last question (about a download of all 960 positions) because both MikeB and I have already provided a file with the 960 positions. In the file that I proposed, the number of the position is simply the number of the line.

Yes, Roland , I do not under understand Mike Adam's last question either. Both our file and the file I posted are the standard, meaning, if you join ICCF and play in a 960 game, they will tell you are playing so and so with start position xxx ( line number of position from your file or my file) and that will match the start position ICCF will display to you on the board ) or even if you just play 960 with xBoard - Xboard and ICCF are in sync with each other, position number 519 is the normal start position as you stated and all others are in alignment as well SO Mike Adams , there is standard listing of FEN's with line # in our files representing the number of the 960 position that is being used. Can you clarify your question/request as both Roland and I are now confused with what you asking for, and what you are trying to accomplish?

Modern Times
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Re: Anyone know of a way to download FR fens(chess960) by FR position number?

Post by Modern Times » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:09 pm

This is a file I use for engine matches in a GUI.
Attachments
chess960.7z
(7.03 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
.

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